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[texasmr2]

Hello all.

I got bent enough to register someplace (F1) else last year but didn't post there (only 2 races left). But the treatment Hamilton and McLaren was recieving was the reason. And here we are again.

I wasn't there, and neither was 99.9% of the people judging Hamilton.

If he (or McLaren) did lie, then he deserves the full weight of any applicable penalties and FIA judgments against him.

But here's the thing, why would Hamilton tell Steward's one thing and the Media another? It doesn't make any sense. He knows full well that anything he say’s to the Media the Steward’s hear. The only way this makes sense is if Hamilton had lied to the Media too. He didn't.

There's something more to this story. And considering what I perceive (as a 40 year American F1 fan) as an ingrained prejudice in the F1 community. Which I have seen demonstrated over the last few years.

I will hold my judgment against Hamilton until enough time has passed, and the complete truth comes out.

As an American I want the best to win, no matter race, creed or color. If you are the best in word, thought and deed, your nationality or color means little to me. Because all nations are a part of America.

Hamilton I feel, has demonstrated in the past what is the best qualities in any champion we could ask for.

Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think so.

So your a Hamilton fan?

[Gaz]

FIA are not the drivers they don't have a right to choose the result of the race so easily.

utter bullpoo regardless of if he lied or not, which i don't belive he did.

Oh come oon So the FIA press release about the matter is a lie then? You guys crack me up with your denial.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. The evidence is stacked against Lewis and McLaren. :/

Yeh but i'd like the transcripts from the convesation with the stewards.

i think they have punished him very harsly just removing trullis penalty would of been enough,

[8-ball]

Hello all.

I got bent enough to register someplace (F1) else last year but didn't post there (only 2 races left). But the treatment Hamilton and McLaren was recieving was the reason. And here we are again.

I wasn't there, and neither was 99.9% of the people judging Hamilton.

If he (or McLaren) did lie, then he deserves the full weight of any applicable penalties and FIA judgments against him.

But here's the thing, why would Hamilton tell Steward's one thing and the Media another? It doesn't make any sense. He knows full well that anything he say’s to the Media the Steward’s hear. The only way this makes sense is if Hamilton had lied to the Media too. He didn't.

There's something more to this story. And considering what I perceive (as a 40 year American F1 fan) as an ingrained prejudice in the F1 community. Which I have seen demonstrated over the last few years.

I will hold my judgment against Hamilton until enough time has passed, and the complete truth comes out.

As an American I want the best to win, no matter race, creed or color. If you are the best in word, thought and deed, your nationality or color means little to me. Because all nations are a part of America.

Hamilton I feel, has demonstrated in the past what is the best qualities in any champion we could ask for.

Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think so.

They key question is why did he tell the stewards one thing and the media the opposite. That is what I cannot understand and come up with a reasonable logical explanation for. It would naive to say "Hamilton made mistake" because if he is that stupid he shouldn't be driving an F1 car.

And the fact that Mclaren are not appealing the decision is another nail in the coffin. Why not appeal? If you are so convinced of your innocence, present the evidence. They are not doing that because all the evidence points to Mclaren deception.

If some other evidence comes out to the contrary I would be the first to admit I was wrong.

[Denthúl]

FIA are not the drivers they don't have a right to choose the result of the race so easily.

utter bullpoo regardless of if he lied or not, which i don't belive he did.

Oh come oon So the FIA press release about the matter is a lie then? You guys crack me up with your denial.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. The evidence is stacked against Lewis and McLaren. :/

Yeh but i'd like the transcripts from the convesation with the stewards.

i think they have punished him very harsly just removing trullis penalty would of been enough,

In terms of measures taken over the result of the Australian grand prix, yes. But then he'd have to be suitably punished for 'misleading' the stewards in another form, no?

[Malibu327]

That's why the FIA have rules. It's a private industry, they're allowed to have whatever rules they want. They aren't bound to the Geneva Convention or anything.

Anyway, they would never ban him from a race because no one on the UK would watch it.

[bmwpower]

Hello all.

I got bent enough to register someplace (F1) else last year but didn't post there (only 2 races left). But the treatment Hamilton and McLaren was recieving was the reason. And here we are again.

I wasn't there, and neither was 99.9% of the people judging Hamilton.

If he (or McLaren) did lie, then he deserves the full weight of any applicable penalties and FIA judgments against him.

But here's the thing, why would Hamilton tell Steward's one thing and the Media another? It doesn't make any sense. He knows full well that anything he say’s to the Media the Steward’s hear. The only way this makes sense is if Hamilton had lied to the Media too. He didn't.

There's something more to this story. And considering what I perceive (as a 40 year American F1 fan) as an ingrained prejudice in the F1 community. Which I have seen demonstrated over the last few years.

I will hold my judgment against Hamilton until enough time has passed, and the complete truth comes out.

As an American I want the best to win, no matter race, creed or color. If you are the best in word, thought and deed, your nationality or color means little to me. Because all nations are a part of America.

Hamilton I feel, has demonstrated in the past what is the best qualities in any champion we could ask for.

Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think so.

None of us are ever at any of these races or hearings, but we debate based on facts and evidence, if you are saying we shouldn't judge people based on their action because we weren't THERE to see it, then most forums will not exist and there's no debate.

No one here ever broung up LH's color except for you, its no important to us what color he is but we do notice the significant of what he accomplished. As for "all nations are a part of America". Which part of America is this??

A lot of drivers say things in the heat of the moment after a grueling race, they don't have all the info or facts that another team member would. But the facts still remained, his conversaton with the media was different from his converstion with the Stewards. Either he lied or was misinformed by his Team Manager, but the evidence is there.

[Jensonb]

I'll leave you to your discussion because I don't think I have much to add. But I will say this:

Hamilton's disqualification has not been applied to the FF1WDC because it's a matter between him and the FiA, so irrelevant to our Championship.

[Denthúl]

I'll leave you to your discussion because I don't think I have much to add. But I will say this:

Hamilton's disqualification has not been applied to the FF1WDC because it's a matter between him and the FiA, so irrelevant to our Championship.

Fair enough. And the rescinded penalty?

[irons_4_ever]

this has left a bad taste in my mouth it really has, i like hamilton as he is british i like button as he is british i wouldnt say i support a driver i just like formula 1.

But this has anoyed me and the mclaren fans have really shocked me.

[Stealthgate007]

Macca should do a Brawn and go to work on the 2010 and just ride the season out and save some money. Here's what they should do in the interim.

1. Hire a F'n expert on rules and regs, full time senior position. There is no reason why a team should be ignorant of any situation regarding rules. This goes for all teams. If there are questions, experts need to verify before race season.
2. STFU, Macca and Lewis, do a Raikkonen. The media wants to know this and that, don't answer them or be vague. They screw you in the end.
3. If they say they are going suspend you for 1 race, sit out two. Stick it to those bitches. You have nothing to prove to me WDC!

[Kish]

So your a Hamilton fan?

LOL, started out last year wanting Massa's team to win. But Hamilton was the one who "shined" last year. And since it seemed like everyone was on his case. The more adversity the kid endured, the more I liked him. But I just found the written Stewards Decision and he lied. Perhaps at McLaren's direction, but lied all the same. D*mn, hell of a way to start a season.

[cap-dude]

James Allen
There are some very simple but fundamental questions here. Both Hamilton and the team know that the radio is monitored by the FIA and by the TV production people. The following exchange could easily have been broadcast, had it not occured so late in the race:

“Lewis: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, …, is this OK?

McLaren: Understood, Lewis. We’ll confirm and get back to you.

LH: He was off the track. He went wide.

McLaren: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

LH: OK.

LH: He’s slowed right down in front of me.

McLaren: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.

LH: I let him past already.”

So the team told him first to let Trulli through, then told him not to, a classic piece of indecision, by which time it was already too late, he had let him through. When I spoke to Jarno this afternoon he said that Hamilton slowed right down, to 80km/h which is virtually stationary in an F1 car and this must have been when this radio dialogue was going on. Clearly Hamilton was very distracted by it and then left confused by the team when they told him to stay ahead, after he’d already let Trulli through.

Knowing that this radio traffic was in the public domain and that Lewis had given an interview to a journalist in which he’d said the team told him to let Trulli through, it beggars belief that he and the team would then say anything different to the stewards. What were they trying to achieve by saying that the team had not told him to let Trulli through?

At its root, what happened on track is not serious. A misunderstanding over what position to take when a car has gone off the road behind a safety car is not a particularly big deal.

Hamilton would have been justified in holding position ahead of Trulli, while the team kept trying to get an answer out of Charlie Whiting, the race director. Charlie was busy monitoring the state of the track and so on, so did not have time to review tapes of the incident and give them an opinion with only a couple of laps to go in the race.

Afterwards the team could have demonstrated that Trulli went off and that they did their level best to do the right thing and check with race control. At worst Hamilton would have been put back to fourth.

Instead they have managed to create Watergate out of the smallest of issues and, just as in Watergate, it’s the cover up that gets you in trouble.

This from someone who does support Lewis and argued against the decision made at Spa.

This is the FIA statement.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pr ... ision.aspx

Clearly, the stewarts did not have access to this information so when they questioned Lewis, they made their decision based purely on what Lewis said. In my opinion I don't think thats right. The stewarts should have all the information before making a decision.

Still, its clear that Lewis and his Manager David Ryan went to the stewarts, claimed that the team did not tell Lewis too slow down and let Truili past. They were basically claiming Truili drove past on his own account. But in fact this is what happened.

McLaren: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

LH: OK.

LH: He’s slowed right down in front of me.

McLaren: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.

LH: I let him past already.”

Lewis did go past Truili, and did let him back past under team orders. I don't think Lewis blatantly lied but instead gave mis-leading evidence that caused Truili to be given an unfair penalty. Under those grounds I'd complain if Lewis wasn't punished. It was silly thing to do. My question is, what were they thinking.

This isn't a classic stewart stupidity moment, this was foolish move from McLaren. McLaren seem to depend on charlie a bit too much, they need to know what rules apply in every scenario. Clearly they didn't know what to do in this case. Lewis should've stay ahead. That's the rules.

[headless]

Penalty Deserved.

Disagree wrong penalty. As bad as putting Trulli out of the points initially

Just out of curiosity, what would you deem a fitting penalty? I mean lying to the stewards is pretty darn low, so it would have to be something that makes him remember it the next time he, or anyone else, thinks about misleading the stewards.

do you honestly think he is the first driver to ever manipulate his story to the stewards?

Manipulate, misunderstanding blaablaaablaa...he told a platant lie when asked a specific question.

I thought the word was BLATANT??

[MAD MAX]

They key question is why did he tell the stewards one thing and the media the opposite. That is what I cannot understand and come up with a reasonable logical explanation for. It would naive to say "Hamilton made mistake" because if he is that stupid he shouldn't be driving an F1 car.

And the fact that Mclaren are not appealing the decision is another nail in the coffin. Why not appeal? If you are so convinced of your innocence, present the evidence. They are not doing that because all the evidence points to Mclaren deception.

If some other evidence comes out to the contrary I would be the first to admit I was wrong.[/quote]



Thats the crux of the whole thing 8 ball, you've hit the nail firmly on the head, if McLaren did nowt wrong why not appeal. Personally, and yes I hold my hands up as a McLaren/Hamilton supporter I would write this season off, (1) the car is crap, (2) The FIA are against you, (3) No matter what you do the odds this season are against you, start now on the new design for 2010, put this down to a very expensive learning curve.

[headless]

I don't see how putting 'f***ing' before Slav makes bud a racist. It's only an intensifier.

It makes it a racist statement. It is not just an intensifier, it is insulting and offensive.

Generally, if someone arguing with you calls you a f***ing McLaren fan, this is not a positive statement. Put a racial grouping after the f***ing and it becomes a racist statement.

For the last time will you stop discussing racism on this thread!

So what if he is a racist. Not that he is.
What is anyone going to do?
Get over it.