Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

If lewis (or even Nico) dnfs from Merc unreliability, will Merc retire both cars

Yes
1
9%
No
10
91%
No opinion
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 11

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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by LRW »

Yeah. Well done on finishing so often. Out of the points.
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by Hammer278 »

Ferrari man 009 wrote:
CookinFlat6 wrote:Put it this way Merc have finished in the points 85% of races whereas Ferrari 76% so their reliability is possibly nothing to write home about


You can't really use this stat to prove reliability when Raikkonen has failed to finish in the points on 5 occasions he has finished races this season, which is more down to him being slow than Ferrari being unreliable.

As you can see from the "retirements" table in the link below. Mercedes have had 5 "technical failures" (3 for Hamilton, 2 for Rosberg) in races this season while Ferrari have had 2 (both Alonso). In fact the best teams are McLaren, Force India and Williams who have all only had 1 technical failure each this season. Interestingly, this shows that Mercedes have had more technical retirements than all their customers combined.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2 ... penalties/


Yes...the 2014 World Champions should be ashamed of themselves. :D
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by myownalias »

Hammer278 wrote:
Ferrari man 009 wrote:
CookinFlat6 wrote:Put it this way Merc have finished in the points 85% of races whereas Ferrari 76% so their reliability is possibly nothing to write home about


You can't really use this stat to prove reliability when Raikkonen has failed to finish in the points on 5 occasions he has finished races this season, which is more down to him being slow than Ferrari being unreliable.

As you can see from the "retirements" table in the link below. Mercedes have had 5 "technical failures" (3 for Hamilton, 2 for Rosberg) in races this season while Ferrari have had 2 (both Alonso). In fact the best teams are McLaren, Force India and Williams who have all only had 1 technical failure each this season. Interestingly, this shows that Mercedes have had more technical retirements than all their customers combined.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2 ... penalties/


Yes...the 2014 World Champions should be ashamed of themselves. :D

Certainly doesn't make me want to buy one of their roads cars if they are going to have brake failures, stop on the side of the road and spontaneously combust!
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by Ferrari man 009 »

Hammer278 wrote:
Ferrari man 009 wrote:
CookinFlat6 wrote:Put it this way Merc have finished in the points 85% of races whereas Ferrari 76% so their reliability is possibly nothing to write home about


You can't really use this stat to prove reliability when Raikkonen has failed to finish in the points on 5 occasions he has finished races this season, which is more down to him being slow than Ferrari being unreliable.

As you can see from the "retirements" table in the link below. Mercedes have had 5 "technical failures" (3 for Hamilton, 2 for Rosberg) in races this season while Ferrari have had 2 (both Alonso). In fact the best teams are McLaren, Force India and Williams who have all only had 1 technical failure each this season. Interestingly, this shows that Mercedes have had more technical retirements than all their customers combined.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2 ... penalties/


Yes...the 2014 World Champions should be ashamed of themselves. :D


My point was in terms of reliability Mercedes haven't been as good as quite a few other teams. But that for me is probably because they pushed the regulations harder than others and therefore at the expense of potential unreliability got more raw speed from the car. Ferrari as we know went for reliability and sacrificed performance. This might change in the next few years under Mattiaci who said that this culture needs changing.
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Its already changing - the way they have dumped Alonso and gambled on Seb doesnt hint at caution anymore, MnM will give it a very good shot, the only issue is the amount of time he gets before its dismantled in the same way they dismantled Alonso - but he is very sharp
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by Ferrari man 009 »

Mattiaci will get time, Ferrari aren't stupid. They gave Domenicalli 3 and a half years when in other sports (e.g. football) he could have been fired for his part in throwing both the 2008 (reliability issues and of course the pitstop in Singapore) and 2010 (Abu Dhabi strategy screw up) WDC's away. The important thing in 2015 and 2016 is Ferrari make progress and win the occasional race. If it wasn't for the brilliance of Alonso in 2012 and the first half of 2013 it would have been 4 consecutive years without a title challenge for Ferrari. For a team with the reputation and history of Ferrari that isnt good enough.

Anyway, back on topic - I see Bernie thinks the double points system should be dropped and its stupid. That's a little ironic coming from the bloke who created it and pushed the teams to accept its implementation!
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by LiamCatterson »

Ferrari man 009 wrote:Mattiaci will get time, Ferrari aren't stupid. They gave Domenicalli 3 and a half years when in other sports (e.g. football) he could have been fired for his part in throwing both the 2008 (reliability issues and of course the pitstop in Singapore) and 2010 (Abu Dhabi strategy screw up) WDC's away. The important thing in 2015 and 2016 is Ferrari make progress and win the occasional race. If it wasn't for the brilliance of Alonso in 2012 and the first half of 2013 it would have been 4 consecutive years without a title challenge for Ferrari. For a team with the reputation and history of Ferrari that isnt good enough.
I can see Ferrari actually improving probably. Who knows. We expect Mercs to be dominant again, we think Red Bull will do well and since Ricciardo has chased Vettel out of Red Bull and is number one of the team, he is capable of leading the team ahead. Who knows what will happen to Williams, will they go backwards like last year, forwards to win races or the same position? It's all up in the air.
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by Hammer278 »

myownalias wrote:
Hammer278 wrote:
Ferrari man 009 wrote:
CookinFlat6 wrote:Put it this way Merc have finished in the points 85% of races whereas Ferrari 76% so their reliability is possibly nothing to write home about


You can't really use this stat to prove reliability when Raikkonen has failed to finish in the points on 5 occasions he has finished races this season, which is more down to him being slow than Ferrari being unreliable.

As you can see from the "retirements" table in the link below. Mercedes have had 5 "technical failures" (3 for Hamilton, 2 for Rosberg) in races this season while Ferrari have had 2 (both Alonso). In fact the best teams are McLaren, Force India and Williams who have all only had 1 technical failure each this season. Interestingly, this shows that Mercedes have had more technical retirements than all their customers combined.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2 ... penalties/


Yes...the 2014 World Champions should be ashamed of themselves. :D

Certainly doesn't make me want to buy one of their roads cars if they are going to have brake failures, stop on the side of the road and spontaneously combust!


The banner on their ads will have the word 'Champions' on it, the regular road car user/public is not going to delve into individual races and evaluate specific failures of their F1 cars. If any other team could switch places with Merc this season.... I mean this is a ridiculous question to even consider. :hehe:
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by CookinFlat6 »

A cynic would say Merc partially validated against this most one sided of poll results.

A cynic could say they fixed Nicos Ers just to make sure only Lewis didnt retire with an issue, lets face it Nico doesnt lose much, and lewis is guaranteed to win, without any double points controversy causing a terrible Pr problem for Merc

The question though is who could have been in on it? possibly Padi and Toto, maybe Niki

Nicos ERS failing does however in a way validate the claim Merc would not allow Lewis to lose because of a Mercedes unreliability. With Nico the issue is masked by Lewis winning and no one qasks qwuestions as it would be bad form on a day like today

either way - just like I said, above in the OP, the best guy has won with no controversy for Daimler
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by sagi58 »

CookinFlat6 wrote:...Nicos ERS failing does however in a way validate the claim Merc would not allow Lewis to lose because of a Mercedes unreliability. With Nico the issue is masked by Lewis winning and no one qasks qwuestions as it would be bad form on a day like today...


But, you did ask, even if it was in a subversive manner.
So... what's your answer?

What if Hamilton had been the one with the issues that Rosberg had today?
Why shouldn't that be controversial for Mercedes? Or just because Hamilton
won it's ok that Rosberg had the mechanical / reliability issues?
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by Hammer278 »

Ferrari man 009 wrote:Mattiaci will get time, Ferrari aren't stupid. They gave Domenicalli 3 and a half years ......


:scratchchin:
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by racechick »

sagi58 wrote:
CookinFlat6 wrote:...Nicos ERS failing does however in a way validate the claim Merc would not allow Lewis to lose because of a Mercedes unreliability. With Nico the issue is masked by Lewis winning and no one qasks qwuestions as it would be bad form on a day like today...


But, you did ask, even if it was in a subversive manner.
So... what's your answer?

What if Hamilton had been the one with the issues that Rosberg had today?
Why shouldn't that be controversial for Mercedes? Or just because Hamilton
won it's ok that Rosberg had the mechanical / reliability issues?


its not OK for anyone to have mechanical issues, Mercedes were absolutely clear about that. what they were also clear about, as was Nico, is that the mechanical issues made no difference to the outcome of the champiuonship because Lewis had got the job done by the first corner.
Had the mechanical issues occured on Lewis' car then they would have made a difference, because if Lewis had retired(or dropped right back) and Nico gone on to win, then the mechanical issue would have changed the outcome of the WDC.
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by sagi58 »

racechick wrote:
sagi58 wrote:
CookinFlat6 wrote:...Nicos ERS failing does however in a way validate the claim Merc would not allow Lewis to lose because of a Mercedes unreliability. With Nico the issue is masked by Lewis winning and no one qasks qwuestions as it would be bad form on a day like today...


But, you did ask, even if it was in a subversive manner.
So... what's your answer?

What if Hamilton had been the one with the issues that Rosberg had today?
Why shouldn't that be controversial for Mercedes? Or just because Hamilton
won it's ok that Rosberg had the mechanical / reliability issues?


its not OK for anyone to have mechanical issues, Mercedes were absolutely clear about that. what they were also clear about, as was Nico, is that the mechanical issues made no difference to the outcome of the champiuonship because Lewis had got the job done by the first corner.
Had the mechanical issues occured on Lewis' car then they would have made a difference, because if Lewis had retired(or dropped right back) and Nico gone on to win, then the mechanical issue would have changed the outcome of the WDC.


Cookin' referred to there being no controversy for Daimler, because Hamilton won.
I asked why it wasn't controversial that Rosberg had the problems as it would follow,
from his comment/opinion, that it was ok that it was him and not Hamilton.

p.s. Here's the exact quote:
CookinFlat6 wrote:...either way - just like I said, above in the OP, the best guy has won with no controversy for Daimler
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by LRW »

I assume Cookin' means that Rosberg was not in a winning position, and had he not had mechanical issues, he still wouldnt of won the WDC - so the overall result was not affected by mechanical issues. If Lewis had developed mechanical issues and dropped out of the points, the WDC could be seen to have been decided by a mechanical fault. This is bad for brand Mercedes.
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Re: Abu Dhabi Double Points Fix

Post by CookinFlat6 »

^Wot LRW said innit

sagi - the clue is that NO ONE is saying ANY controversy or unfairness or double points misjustice has occurred - NO ONE - thats the end result - end of story

In whatever way Daimler have the result I predicted in the poll - zero controversy

Nico lost at the start, once he was behind lewis and obviously wasnt able to keep up the WDC was over - UNLESS 2 things happend - Lewis dnf for a Merc fault = big controversy or Nico dnf for a Merc fault = NO controversy cos he already lost the WDC and losing one race from reliability is not important

how can you not get this, or rather how can you expect to irritate Merc fans with this, there is zero controversy unless you want to make it so :hehe:

oh yes, I was wrong on the polled question and everyone else was correct - Merc didnt dnf Lewis after Nico had a fault - I was just pointing out that they didnt have to because for whatever reason they had their desired outcome and thats that
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