Any aerodnamics experts??

[Dj_polly12]

Im 17, year 12 at school in oz.
I'm involved in a different type of racing similar to F1 just on a smaller level... eg. using composite materials, machinery skills etc etc.
What I wanted to ask was.... Has anybody heard of the 'dimple effect' used in aerodynamics? basically what it is, is little dimples like on a golf ball that help laminar air flow over the surface of an object. For example, a golf ball with dimples can travel twice as far as one without.

Would this be helpfull in F1 where thousandths of seconds are usefull?? The 'dimple effect' would primarily be used on pieces of the car that are not that aerodynamic.

Interested to hear other peoples thoughts, as I know the dimples are being used in cycling equitment where speeds are only around 60 km/h compared to an F1 cars 200 km/h.

Cheers!

[bud]

www.F1Technical.net

i dont think dimples would work on cars and on push bikes? just wank parts!

[Jabberwocky]

I think the dimple effect has been out law'd by the new aero rules. if you read the technical regulations I would imagine it would explain the exact rulings on it.

I do not think anyone used it for as long as I can remember. Are you sure that the dimple effect only decreases drag? does it not give the ball lift or something (it has been 15 years since I did any type of aero work, and to be honest I never really paid much attention to it in college)

[Dj_polly12]

From my understanding, the primary use of the dimples is to aid the air flow as the surface changes in a significant way, ie, the ball. something around 15 degrees or 25 if i recall correctly.

What the dimples do, is create a slight amount of turbulance, that pushes the air from the surface temporarilly, allowing it to change direction suited to the desired change of the surface..

[f1ea]

Read this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3223

[christoff]

This might help,
http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Sports/instructor/golf-01.html

[Red_Five]

As far as I'm aware the dimples on a golf ball only help because the ball itself is rotating. None of the aero parts on an F1 car move in a similar way so I guess it wouldn't be much help, if not a hinderance.
Maybe the should put dimples in the tyres........

[onelapdown]

The dimples work by creating a small amount of turbulence that acts to keep the boundary layer stuck to the ball for longer, meaning the airflow separates further back making the wake smaller and reducing drag. Swing bowlers use the rough side of a cricket ball in a similar way, although this is more for the purposes of turning the airflow than reducing drag. I'm pretty sure that this is separate to the Magnus affect caused by a spinning ball. I've never heard of this applied in F1 but I had wondered about it, I would imagine the reason would be that it only works up to a certain speed, which is perhaps why swing bowlers tend not to bowl at over 80mph.

[onelapdown]

After thinking about this, perhaps the reason dimples aren't used is because they act by reducing the size of a wake behind a body, whereas F1 car aerodynamics work best when there is no flow separation at all. Essentially the dimples are a solution to a problem that aerodynamicists have prevented from occurring in the first place...

[nish2280]

After thinking about this, perhaps the reason dimples aren't used is because they act by reducing the size of a wake behind a body, whereas F1 car aerodynamics work best when there is no flow separation at all. Essentially the dimples are a solution to a problem that aerodynamicists have prevented from occurring in the first place...

That is exactly what i was thinking

Well said.

[Dj_polly12]

Thanks very much onelapdown. Interestingly enough I got the oppurtunity to test the theory in a wind tunnel (RMIT University in Aus) and what you've said basically draws to the same conclusion we incountered. However, because the racing I'm involved with differs from f1, we've decided to incorporate the idea into our design.

Cheers to all who added to this little discussion!!

[madbrad]

Wow you guys sure know your aero!

All I can add is some road cars have either dimples or bumps in strategic sections of the side mirror housings and I think it's to reduce noise. I see it mostly when the design has the mirror separated from the car by an air gap and the surface facing the gap is dimpled or bumped.

[7UpJordan]

Wow you guys sure know your aero!

How hard can it be?

[Dj_polly12]

hahahahaha!! That's gold!

[Gilles 27]

as the dimples are used to basically reduce the drag of the ball, I would imagine that F1 cars have no real need for them as the primary aim in F1 aero is to use clean air to the advantage of generating the maximum grip and balance. Low drag co-efficient is not a very high priority in F1 I don't think