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[TruthTellerF1]

Put to one side the splits and the lap times, especially on the dry tyres. We have absolutely no idea about how the final laps compared for the two Toyotas, there are too many variables: traffic, skids, slips, mistakes and so on.

One thing is for certain that if the pit lane called to Glock to ease up, then with all the telemetry and the splits in front of them, they would have seen how it appeared.

What we did witness is the following:

* Glock was well ahead
* The track was drying - there was no more rain
* The end sector was not as wet
* Glock was not only ahead but along with Vettel... WELL AHEAD
* Hamilton was unable to catch Glock or Vettel
* Hamilton himself was suffering from a lack of grip as the car was not set up well on the intermediates
* We saw Hamilton struggling to even keep up with Glock and Vettel
* Glock was some 15 - 18 seconds ahead of Hamilton with 3 turns to go
* We clearly see Glock ease up and PULL WIDE

Other than this is the common sense factor.

Those watching the coverage witnessed Martin Brundel confirming that the Championship was slipping out of Hamilton’s hands. Glock was 15 seconds ahead and all he had to do was “tip-toe” around the last few turns. We saw Hamilton unable to catch him.

Everyone from Martin Brundel to Damon Hill saw what happened on the last bend. No one wants to say it. The media is using the word "dramatic" for "controversial"... considering the usual behaviour of the stewards i.e. Everything is looked into even if to clear the drivers, is it not unusual that this is not even being investigated by the stewards?

Where is the debate on the TV / News / Media? It conspicuous due to its absence.

[big ron]

Put to one side the splits and the lap times, especially on the dry tyres. We have absolutely no idea about how the final laps compared for the two Toyotas, there are too many variables: traffic, skids, slips, mistakes and so on.

One thing is for certain that if the pit lane called to Glock to ease up, then with all the telemetry and the splits in front of them, they would have seen how it appeared.

What we did witness is the following:

* Glock was well ahead - No he wasn't, watch the replay
* The track was drying - there was no more rain - No it wasn't, that's why all the front runners went onto intermediates
* The end sector was not as wet - It was very wet off line at turn 10, which is where Glock first went wide
* Glock was not only ahead but along with Vettel... WELL AHEAD - No he wasn't, watch the replay
* Hamilton was unable to catch Glock or Vettel - looks like he caught Glock pretty well, must be one of those things bout being on the right tyres at the right temps
* Hamilton himself was suffering from a lack of grip as the car was not set up well on the intermediates - yeah, but he kept in on the line more Glock
* We saw Hamilton struggling to even keep up with Glock and Vettel - I only saw him struggling to keep up with Vettel
* Glock was some 15 - 18 seconds ahead of Hamilton with 3 turns to go - No he wasn't, he was up his gearbox with 3 turns to go
* We clearly see Glock ease up and PULL WIDE - Run wide, not pull wide

Other than this is the common sense factor.

Those watching the coverage witnessed Martin Brundel confirming that the Championship was slipping out of Hamilton’s hands. Glock was 15 seconds ahead and all he had to do was “tip-toe” around the last few turns. We saw Hamilton unable to catch him.

Everyone from Martin Brundel to Damon Hill saw what happened on the last bend. No one wants to say it. The media is using the word "dramatic" for "controversial"... considering the usual behaviour of the stewards i.e. Everything is looked into even if to clear the drivers, is it not unusual that this is not even being investigated by the stewards?

Where is the debate on the TV / News / Media? It conspicuous due to its absence.

Utter bollox mate, and this has been discussed on a fair few other threads. What you saw was Brundle TELLING you that Glock was 15secs ahead. If you watch the reply you'll see that clearly isn't the case. Glock's penultimate lap was a 1m29s, indicating he already had temp issues in his tyres and brakes. On the final lap, he ran wide at Murghulo and got onto the wet, after that it was all over. The reason there's no debate in the Media is because there's nothing wrong in what happened.

[Eaglestone]

Yeah I'd like to see more info about it before passing judgement it didn't make any sense to me at all.
Glock is a fantastic driver and had been driving well up until the last 2 laps or so.
The track seemed dry but he slowed down to a much slower pace it almost looked like he had mechanical problems.

[McLaren Fan]

We don't need ten million threads on this. Can you not see the ones that there are already about the matter. Engage your brain before you start using your fingers to operate the keyboard.

[bud]

another thread..... trolls should not be able to create threads except in the introductions section!!!!

[KyrosV]

can one of the mods clump all these 'GlockGate' threads together?

[Eaglestone]

We don't need ten million threads on this. Can you not see the ones that there are already about the matter. Engage your brain before you start using your fingers to operate the keyboard.

You seem to be the biggest offender cropping up in quite a few of them.
I expect there will be a dozen more after this so knock your self out.

[scotty]

another thread..... trolls should not be able to create threads except in the introductions section!!!!

That's a good idea actually...

As for the incident, Glock blatantly had zero grip or traction why else did he lose 6 sections trying to get up the start/finish straight?!

[prozac26]

So we're going to take LH's Title away, just because some people think Glock or Toyota wanted for LH to win?

Wow.. this is getting ridiculous.

[Gaz]

Glock wasn't exacly hamilton's best mate after Monza he made some comments along the line's of he would do the same to hamilton if it wasn't careful.

So already that don't paint the picture of somone that would help hamilton.

So if it did happen it must of been a inter-team co-operation if thats the case it would of been decided during or before the race.

1. Why did Glock push hamilton so hard when he was 5th and Glock was 6th? Surly he would just let hamilton pull away rather than keep pushing him.

2. Why did Trulli run light surely if hamilton was 3rd it would of been better for the team.

Answer: There was no inter-team co-operation so stop being so stupid about the fact the better driver won.

[TruthTellerF1]

The opinion of who is the "better" driver is irrelevant to this discussion. We are also not talking about team rivalries or the perception of favours.

The question is based upon the actuality of what we witnessed during the final stages of the grand prix.

All the closest observers i.e. the commentators, the pit lane observers and us at home with the benefit of the television coverage; we all witnessed the same thing. On a drying track, Glock was consistently faster then Hamilton. Hamilton, with Vettel and Glock ahead of him and 3 turms to go, Hamilton was dead an buried.

The issue of wet / dry tyres is inarguable - the track was drying, there was no additional rain, Glock was gone. There was in excess of a 15 second gap with about 30 seconds of racing left. The 'twitch' of Glock's Toyota was no more pronounced then Hamilton had suffered multiple times in the last 2 or 3 laps after the last rain shower had hit. Glock's Toyota was clearly not out of control; having recorded and reviewed the incident over and over again, the twitch is on the acceleration out of the bend, there was no loss of control through the bend only on the exit.

But the fact remains that Glock gave up 15 seconds in the last 30 seconds of the race.

We know Glock is an out and out racer. It is possible that he was not asked to think, or was not thinking about Hamilton's position - merely his own. This would seem plausible. What is not plausible for the F1 officianados out there, is a car on slicks which is 15 seconds ahead of Hamilton, on a DRYING track (review the tape), where the commentators have clearly said that he was not going to be caught, him then being caught and overtaken.

Closing a 15 second gap over the last 30 seconds on a drying track with intermediates chasing down slicks and a dry race line showing and where the previous 2/3 of a lap showed no signs of trouble? Plausible?

[onelapdown]

Can I just ask, if Glock was so keen not to finish above Hamilton, why didn't he just pit for rain tyres like everyone else? He wanted that fourth place but in the end his gamble didn't quite pay off. It happens.

[TruthTellerF1]

No one pits with a lap to go, not even two laps.

As it turns out, Glock's decision between him and Toyota control was spot on. It was a shower - not prolonged. We know from the start of the race that different teams had different climate predictions. Just as we know Schumacher would not only race on slicks but could more often then not outrace people on intermediates. The things Schumacher could do in the rain was pure magic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Ferrari fan nor a Schuey fan. But we have to be honest and call it as we see it - without prejudice and without bias.

Look at Glock's times. He was clearly racing his socks off in the wet / damp conditions:

Lap 66 1:17.992
Lap 67 1:18.897
Lap 68 1:18.816
Lap 69 1:18.688
Lap 70 1:28.041
Lap 71 1:44.731

We know some people are exceptionally good in the rain. Hamilton did not have a hope in hell of catching glock with 30 seconds to go. So without a mechanical failure, and without Glock spinning off, how did Glock lose 15 seconds with 30 seconds to go? Review the tape, Glock pulls over, Vettel and Hamilton come through, then he has a slight twitch on acceleration up the hill while exiting the turn, but thats it... no more than that.

The crowd couldn't believe it; the commentators couldn't believe it; the audience at home couldn't believe it; Brundel couldn't believe it; Damon Hill couldn't believe it. It is simply unbelievable.

This is not the place for conspiracy theories but we know that the stewards investigate far less than this. Where is the scrutiny, where is the media / public debate? It doesnt mean we dont love Hamilton, McLaren or our country but we do things fairly here and there should at least be the perception of fairness.

It is interesting to note that Glock has not spoken about what happened on the last turn, and in fact, nor has anyone else for that matter... and after all... it was all about that turn.

Losing 15 seconds over the last 30 seconds on a drying track? Think again people.

[KyrosV]

even if something fishy happened with Glock, its over now. 2008 is a closed case. Lets move on, you guys are boring me with this Glock slowing down crap, dont ruin a great season weve had. come on raise a glass to F1 2008

[TruthTellerF1]

Is that how we do it?

We say it's history now and there are no repurcussions?

That's certainly not how we do things... we don't see a potential injustice and just move on. We certainly don't allow things to go uninvestigated and the wrong doers (if there are any) going unpunished.

Funnily enough, it is often the people who perpetrate the wrong, or their supporters (knowing of that wrongdoing or not wanting to know of it) who say "let's move on, it's history".

No, it's not how we do things.