Guess the race...

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LewEngBridewell
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby LewEngBridewell »

Was it the German GP at Hockenheim in 1980?
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby madbrad »

^^
You know what I think that's it. I just read a commentary on that race. Interestingly the race was won by another French team.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby andrew »

1970 Spanish Grand Prix? Both Matra retired due to engine failure. Just a complete guess.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby madbrad »

Matra's French?
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby darwin dali »

madbrad wrote:Matra's French?

Oui: Mécanique Aviation Traction or Matra (Mécanique Aviation TRAction)
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby andrew »

madbrad wrote:Matra's French?


That's why I suggested them.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby madbrad »

andrew wrote:
madbrad wrote:Matra's French?


That's why I suggested them.

But you were a bit late to the party as my research suggests Lew's response is the correct one.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby madbrad »

GRHinPorts wrote:
madbrad wrote:I might guess it was the renaults as they pioneered the turbo so were far and away quicker than anyone else but the teakettles were notoriously unreliable.


No teakettles in this story unless you consider the 2nd driver of the team we are talking about to be as useful as a F1 driver as a chocolate one.


Wait, you misled me. It was indeed the teakettles! The turbocharged Renaults were called the teakettles because they had a propensity to boil over. In the 1980 German GP, both of them suffered engine failures. They were presumably the typical Renault turbo engine failures. The wholly inadequate cooling system is overwhelmed by all the additional heat the turbo generates, so it fails, followed by loss of all coolant which makes the engine stop running. That is, if Lew is right. And I only guessed the team. I would never have got the venue or year.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby Big Azza »

madbrad wrote:
GRHinPorts wrote:
madbrad wrote:I might guess it was the renaults as they pioneered the turbo so were far and away quicker than anyone else but the teakettles were notoriously unreliable.


No teakettles in this story unless you consider the 2nd driver of the team we are talking about to be as useful as a F1 driver as a chocolate one.


Wait, you misled me. It was indeed the teakettles! The turbocharged Renaults were called the teakettles because they had a propensity to boil over. In the 1980 German GP, both of them suffered engine failures. They were presumably the typical Renault turbo engine failures. The wholly inadequate cooling system is overwhelmed by all the additional heat the turbo generates, so it fails, followed by loss of all coolant which makes the engine stop running. That is, if Lew is right. And I only guessed the team. I would never have got the venue or year.


I doubt it was that race. There is very little information about this Grand Prix. I can't really find any. But given that Alan Jones in the Williams qualified on pole and also had the fastest lap, seems to indicate to me that Williams lead a lot of the race.

[EDIT] No, further research seems to agree. On the official F1 website there is an article dedicated to Lafitte, and there is a picture down the bottom right showing Rene Arnoux leading Lafitte at that Grand Prix here: http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2006/7/4623.html. :thumbup:

And this website here indicates that Arnoux's team mate "set the pace initially." :thumbup:
http://kevin-guthrie.suite101.com/1980-f1-racing-season-a79778
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby andrew »

madbrad wrote:
andrew wrote:
madbrad wrote:Matra's French?


That's why I suggested them.

But you were a bit late to the party as my research suggests Lew's response is the correct one.


Am I? I don't think I am. No one has confirmed the answer.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby GRHinPorts »

Big Azza wrote:
madbrad wrote:
GRHinPorts wrote:
madbrad wrote:I might guess it was the renaults as they pioneered the turbo so were far and away quicker than anyone else but the teakettles were notoriously unreliable.


No teakettles in this story unless you consider the 2nd driver of the team we are talking about to be as useful as a F1 driver as a chocolate one.


Wait, you misled me. It was indeed the teakettles! The turbocharged Renaults were called the teakettles because they had a propensity to boil over. In the 1980 German GP, both of them suffered engine failures. They were presumably the typical Renault turbo engine failures. The wholly inadequate cooling system is overwhelmed by all the additional heat the turbo generates, so it fails, followed by loss of all coolant which makes the engine stop running. That is, if Lew is right. And I only guessed the team. I would never have got the venue or year.


I doubt it was that race. There is very little information about this Grand Prix. I can't really find any. But given that Alan Jones in the Williams qualified on pole and also had the fastest lap, seems to indicate to me that Williams lead a lot of the race.

[EDIT] No, further research seems to agree. On the official F1 website there is an article dedicated to Lafitte, and there is a picture down the bottom right showing Rene Arnoux leading Lafitte at that Grand Prix here: http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2006/7/4623.html. :thumbup:

And this website here indicates that Arnoux's team mate "set the pace initially." :thumbup:
http://kevin-guthrie.suite101.com/1980-f1-racing-season-a79778



OK... :director:
Just to clear this up it was NOT the 1980 German Grand Prix...Although this is an extremely good guess (Jabouille in the Renault lead for the first 26 laps and then both he and Arnoux in the sister car retired within 1 lap of each other) its not the right answer because firstly the 1980 German Grand Prix was the 2nd time not first it was run at Hockenheim after 1979.

Secondly my records show the Renaults of that day were taken out by valve failures and not engines. A bit techy but still not what I am thinking of.

A further couple of clues. Its all a bit more recent that any of the guesses so far. And whilst it was a French team leading that doesnt mean it has to be a French driver.

There I really think that will make it a snap now. Quite surprised this hasnt been answered already.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby madbrad »

andrew wrote:
madbrad wrote:
andrew wrote:
madbrad wrote:Matra's French?


That's why I suggested them.

But you were a bit late to the party as my research suggests Lew's response is the correct one.


Am I? I don't think I am. No one has confirmed the answer.

Yes good point.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby madbrad »

Big Azza wrote:
madbrad wrote:
GRHinPorts wrote:
madbrad wrote:I might guess it was the renaults as they pioneered the turbo so were far and away quicker than anyone else but the teakettles were notoriously unreliable.


No teakettles in this story unless you consider the 2nd driver of the team we are talking about to be as useful as a F1 driver as a chocolate one.


Wait, you misled me. It was indeed the teakettles! The turbocharged Renaults were called the teakettles because they had a propensity to boil over. In the 1980 German GP, both of them suffered engine failures. They were presumably the typical Renault turbo engine failures. The wholly inadequate cooling system is overwhelmed by all the additional heat the turbo generates, so it fails, followed by loss of all coolant which makes the engine stop running. That is, if Lew is right. And I only guessed the team. I would never have got the venue or year.


I doubt it was that race. There is very little information about this Grand Prix. I can't really find any. But given that Alan Jones in the Williams qualified on pole and also had the fastest lap, seems to indicate to me that Williams lead a lot of the race.

[EDIT] No, further research seems to agree. On the official F1 website there is an article dedicated to Lafitte, and there is a picture down the bottom right showing Rene Arnoux leading Lafitte at that Grand Prix here: http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2006/7/4623.html. :thumbup:

And this website here indicates that Arnoux's team mate "set the pace initially." :thumbup:
http://kevin-guthrie.suite101.com/1980-f1-racing-season-a79778

Yes although we have now been told that is not the race, I found quite a detailed writeup on that weekend which I can't find now that had a renault leading from sometime in the first lap, IIRC, and the record sheets all show the 2 renaults dying due to engine on laps 26 and 27 or some such. If it's not the race, it's quite a coincidence that 2 races fit the description. I guess then there were no turbo renaults involved. It could have been in the '20s LOL.
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby madbrad »

GRHinPorts wrote:
Big Azza wrote:
madbrad wrote:
GRHinPorts wrote:
madbrad wrote:I might guess it was the renaults as they pioneered the turbo so were far and away quicker than anyone else but the teakettles were notoriously unreliable.


No teakettles in this story unless you consider the 2nd driver of the team we are talking about to be as useful as a F1 driver as a chocolate one.


Wait, you misled me. It was indeed the teakettles! The turbocharged Renaults were called the teakettles because they had a propensity to boil over. In the 1980 German GP, both of them suffered engine failures. They were presumably the typical Renault turbo engine failures. The wholly inadequate cooling system is overwhelmed by all the additional heat the turbo generates, so it fails, followed by loss of all coolant which makes the engine stop running. That is, if Lew is right. And I only guessed the team. I would never have got the venue or year.


I doubt it was that race. There is very little information about this Grand Prix. I can't really find any. But given that Alan Jones in the Williams qualified on pole and also had the fastest lap, seems to indicate to me that Williams lead a lot of the race.

[EDIT] No, further research seems to agree. On the official F1 website there is an article dedicated to Lafitte, and there is a picture down the bottom right showing Rene Arnoux leading Lafitte at that Grand Prix here: http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2006/7/4623.html. :thumbup:

And this website here indicates that Arnoux's team mate "set the pace initially." :thumbup:
http://kevin-guthrie.suite101.com/1980-f1-racing-season-a79778



OK... :director:
Just to clear this up it was NOT the 1980 German Grand Prix...Although this is an extremely good guess (Jabouille in the Renault lead for the first 26 laps and then both he and Arnoux in the sister car retired within 1 lap of each other) its not the right answer because firstly the 1980 German Grand Prix was the 2nd time not first it was run at Hockenheim after 1979.

Secondly my records show the Renaults of that day were taken out by valve failures and not engines. A bit techy but still not what I am thinking of.

A further couple of clues. Its all a bit more recent that any of the guesses so far. And whilst it was a French team leading that doesnt mean it has to be a French driver.

There I really think that will make it a snap now. Quite surprised this hasnt been answered already.


I missed the part where it was supposed to be the first race at that venue.
The valves are in the engine. The result sheets all use the word "engine".
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Re: Guess the race...

Postby GRHinPorts »

madbrad wrote:
GRHinPorts wrote:
Big Azza wrote:
madbrad wrote:
GRHinPorts wrote:
madbrad wrote:I might guess it was the renaults as they pioneered the turbo so were far and away quicker than anyone else but the teakettles were notoriously unreliable.


No teakettles in this story unless you consider the 2nd driver of the team we are talking about to be as useful as a F1 driver as a chocolate one.


Wait, you misled me. It was indeed the teakettles! The turbocharged Renaults were called the teakettles because they had a propensity to boil over. In the 1980 German GP, both of them suffered engine failures. They were presumably the typical Renault turbo engine failures. The wholly inadequate cooling system is overwhelmed by all the additional heat the turbo generates, so it fails, followed by loss of all coolant which makes the engine stop running. That is, if Lew is right. And I only guessed the team. I would never have got the venue or year.


I doubt it was that race. There is very little information about this Grand Prix. I can't really find any. But given that Alan Jones in the Williams qualified on pole and also had the fastest lap, seems to indicate to me that Williams lead a lot of the race.

[EDIT] No, further research seems to agree. On the official F1 website there is an article dedicated to Lafitte, and there is a picture down the bottom right showing Rene Arnoux leading Lafitte at that Grand Prix here: http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2006/7/4623.html. :thumbup:

And this website here indicates that Arnoux's team mate "set the pace initially." :thumbup:
http://kevin-guthrie.suite101.com/1980-f1-racing-season-a79778



OK... :director:
Just to clear this up it was NOT the 1980 German Grand Prix...Although this is an extremely good guess (Jabouille in the Renault lead for the first 26 laps and then both he and Arnoux in the sister car retired within 1 lap of each other) its not the right answer because firstly the 1980 German Grand Prix was the 2nd time not first it was run at Hockenheim after 1979.

Secondly my records show the Renaults of that day were taken out by valve failures and not engines. A bit techy but still not what I am thinking of.

A further couple of clues. Its all a bit more recent that any of the guesses so far. And whilst it was a French team leading that doesnt mean it has to be a French driver.

There I really think that will make it a snap now. Quite surprised this hasnt been answered already.


I missed the part where it was supposed to be the first race at that venue.
The valves are in the engine. The result sheets all use the word "engine".


I agree the difference between valve failure and engine failure is quite technical but my record book still makes it... None the less its not this race.

It is quite a co-incidence...and for a few moments I was concerned that 1980 was Hockenheims first outing as the German Grand Prix...but lets not forget the yellow flag controversy of the actual race I am looking for. It had a major impact in determining that years WDC.