przemo wrote:Ok, I didn't know about that, I thought all development was frozen. So it's kinda weird that Renault is now complaining that they've been sticking to the rules as they stopped the development on their own rather than were forced to. Maybe they just wanted to explain their current form this way, it's sour grapes now.
I agree with you. It's rubbish for Renault to try and claim that their current woes are down their engine being a little down on power compared to some of the engines powering other teams. Take their traction problem: that's got nothing to do with engine power!
Last edited by McLaren Fan on 01 Aug 08, 00:28, edited 1 time in total.
I think Renault's problem goes back to the second half of '06 when they had to put all their effort into fending off Schumacher's much quicker Ferrari, and the problem got worse when they no longer had Alonso to help develop the car... Their engine can't be too bad if it's putting Alonso 2nd on the grid and powering the Red Bull guys to regular points finishes!
Rising number one of Formula 1, Juan - Juan, one wonders should Juan only win one Formula 1 one year, would Juan have won that one in round one, Juan??
McLaren Fan wrote:Ok, I didn't know about that, I thought all development was frozen. So it's kinda weird that Renault is now complaining that they've been sticking to the rules as they stopped the development on their own rather than were forced to. Maybe they just wanted to explain their current form this way, it's sour grapes now.
I agree with you. It's rubbish for Renault to try and claim that their current woes are down their engine being a little down on power compared to some of the engines powering other teams. Take their traction problem: that's got nothing to do with engine power!
Your really starting to scare me!
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination". Mark Twain
McLaren Fan wrote:Ok, I didn't know about that, I thought all development was frozen. So it's kinda weird that Renault is now complaining that they've been sticking to the rules as they stopped the development on their own rather than were forced to. Maybe they just wanted to explain their current form this way, it's sour grapes now.
I agree with you. It's rubbish for Renault to try and claim that their current woes are down their engine being a little down on power compared to some of the engines powering other teams. Take their traction problem: that's got nothing to do with engine power!
McLaren Fan wrote:Ok, I didn't know about that, I thought all development was frozen. So it's kinda weird that Renault is now complaining that they've been sticking to the rules as they stopped the development on their own rather than were forced to. Maybe they just wanted to explain their current form this way, it's sour grapes now.
I agree with you. It's rubbish for Renault to try and claim that their current woes are down their engine being a little down on power compared to some of the engines powering other teams. Take their traction problem: that's got nothing to do with engine power!
Your really starting to scare me!
Huh?
You replied to yourself incase you missed it, or have I gone completely SHAMWOW!!
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination". Mark Twain
bud wrote:Flavios comments are more likely an attack at Ferrari who made changes to their engine under the pretense of reliability.
all McLaren have done is work on the oil to produce some gains in the engine stakes, something Ferrari have also done!
But Renault should not worry about engines as an excuse for their pace, the car as a whole package is not up to scratch!
According to Steve Matchett, there are a few areas where development is allowed and where all the teams have been pouring millions of dollars in to eek out a few more horsepower. I don't recall what exactly he said they were doing, something with parts outside the engine block, but part of the engine.
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point.
By Jonathan Noble Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 10:39 GMT
Leading Formula One manufacturers have denied claims from Renault that they have unfairly developed their engines during the sport's freeze on power-unit development.
Renault boss Flavio Briatore and lead driver Fernando Alonso both believe their team have lost out because they have not put any effort into improving the few bits of an engine that can still be worked on.
Briatore told Gazzetta dello Sport this week: "Renault have stuck to the letter of the current regulations on frozen engines, and we've been buggered: others didn't do that and are far ahead, while we suffer. It's not fair."
And Alonso added in Hungary this weekend that the Mercedes-Benz engine he used at McLaren last year had definitely improved over the course of the year.
"When the engine was frozen two or three years ago I think Renault more or less stopped developing and carried on with the new regulations," said the Spaniard.
"At the Viry factory in Paris there are less people working and just the maintenance of the engine. Build the engine and nothing more than that, no research and no developing.
"I was in another team last year and I know how much they improved the engine during the season and how many steps we introduced and it is the same for all the teams. Every three or four races there is a little step in the engine, which gives you some horsepower.
"For Renault, it has not been like that for the last two years. There has been a lack of power probably in the last three years."
But Renault's rivals have denied doing anything outside of what is allowed under the terms of the current engine freeze.
"We have gained some performance on the engine side but always outside the boundaries (of what can't be changed)," Theissen told autosport.com.
"These boundaries have been tightened last year, so since then we have only been working on exhausts, on the air inlet above the filter and on oil and fuel. But there are no big steps any more because we have been developing oil and fuel for a long time."
Ferrari technical director Aldo Costa said about Renault's claims: "You have to listen to their opinion, but you also have to listen to the opinion of all the other competitors.
"Rules are frozen on the engine but you are allowed to change components for reliability reasons and also, if you demonstrate that you are implementing a more economic, a cheaper component, you can also ask permission.
"The information gets circulated and all the teams have to express an opinion. So if they want to say no, they say no. And having listened to all the competitors, the FIA can decide not to allow these modifications. So I think it's a very good process. There are very clear limitations and very clear possibilities."
Toyota's Pascal Vasselon added: "From the Toyota side, we have obviously had the same approach as Renault: that means more legal than legal. It was an engine freeze, our engine has been frozen."
McLaren Fan wrote:"Rules are frozen on the engine but you are allowed to change components for reliability reasons and also, if you demonstrate that you are implementing a more economic, a cheaper component, you can also ask permission.
Maybe Flavio is disappointed that he didn't use this exception to the rules to make their engine better? I think I read somewhere that Ferrari did this due to reliability reasons.
