Greatest Driver?

Celebrate over sixty years of F1 - your memories, experiences and opinions.
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Selcouth_Feline
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Greatest Driver?

Postby Selcouth_Feline »

With the advent of Schumacher retiring from F1, who would you say is the best racing driver of all time (not necessarily F1), and why?

For me, probably Fangio. It's so difficult to compare old with new, particularly as the cars are so very, very different, however he drove without all the driver aids of today around seriously scary tracks (Monza's banked curves :shock: ) for far less money and with far less safety than there is today.
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Irv the Swerve
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Favourite Driver: Michael Schumacher
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Postby Irv the Swerve »

I dont know if you heard of a Michael Schumacher. what a driver, fearless the willingness to win i can go on and on..........
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darwin dali
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Postby darwin dali »

Fangio? No way! E.g., he won races when his car was out of commission and his teammate had to give his car to him during the race!
My list would look like this:
MS
AP
AA
AS
JMF
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Marco
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Postby Marco »

darwin_dali wrote:Fangio? No way! E.g., he won races when his car was out of commission and his teammate had to give his car to him during the race!
My list would look like this:
MS
AP
AA
AS
JMF


Who's AA?
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bud
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Favourite Driver: Ayrton Senna, Lewis Hamilton
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Postby bud »

Certaintly not schumacher
firstly he makes too many critical and rookie mistakes,
he has dirtied his name with repeated acts of unsportmanship aka cheating,
hes never had a team mate that was allowed to challenge him

he is one of the greatest but for sure he isnt the greatest!
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darwin dali
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Postby darwin dali »

AA = Alberto Ascari
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7UpJordan
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Postby 7UpJordan »

Mine's got to be Senna, we were robbed of what was shaping up to be an intense rivalry even harder fought than Ayrton's rivalry with Prost.
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"And Mansell was lucky not to be taken off by that RIDICULOUS bit of driving by Alliot!!" - James Hunt
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sonic
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Postby sonic »

7UpJordan wrote:Mine's got to be Senna, we were robbed of what was shaping up to be an intense rivalry even harder fought than Ayrton's rivalry with Prost.



Totally agree. Schumacher is not fit to wipe Sennas boots.

Before someone points out the statistics of what Schumacher has done. He has had no one to stop him. Senna had the likes of Prost, Mansel and Piquet to fight off. Schumacher would not have acheived so much had he been up against those guys!
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7UpJordan
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Postby 7UpJordan »

sonic wrote:
7UpJordan wrote:Mine's got to be Senna, we were robbed of what was shaping up to be an intense rivalry even harder fought than Ayrton's rivalry with Prost.



Totally agree. Schumacher is not fit to wipe Sennas boots.

Before someone points out the statistics of what Schumacher has done. He has had no one to stop him. Senna had the likes of Prost, Mansel and Piquet to fight off. Schumacher would not have acheived so much had he been up against those guys!

And Schumacher only JUST managed to beat Senna's record for number of Pole positions. Plus Schumacher was always "no. 1 driver" whereas Senna always wanted his team mates to be given an equal chance, Eddie Irvine would have relished a challenge like that (in more way than 1 maybye? :P) when he told Ferrari he was "going to kick Schumacher's arse" when he signed for 1996.
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"And Mansell was lucky not to be taken off by that RIDICULOUS bit of driving by Alliot!!" - James Hunt
"AAAAAND into the pitlane..... OHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!" - Murray Walker
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madbrad
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Postby madbrad »

I'd go with Senna. Herr Butthead, with all his accomplishments, seems to lack something I can't put my finger on. He took longer to do the things Senna and others did, and he abused the rules on several occasions. His points were mainly handed to him by his teammates while his rivals shared points with their teammates. That makes a title much easier to come by. I'm not saying he doesn't have immense talent.

It's an age old question, and If I'm not 100% sure I'd pick Senna, my shortlist, in no particular order, is:

Prost, Alesi(last of the late brakers), Hakkinen, G Villeneuve, Stewart, Lauda, Ascari, Fangio, M Schumacher(it's only fair to put that in), Arnoux, Hunt, Stuck, Clark, J Brabham, G Hill... maybe more.

Note the absense in my list of certain title winners of the last 2 decades whom I consider merely journeymen, not that I don't like them or think they suck at all. There are people on the grid with more fire in the belly than those guys.
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Vox
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Postby Vox »

Senna - without doubt
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Postby McLaren Fan »

Schumacher is a cheat with no personality, who had the best car for most of his career, weak team-mates, in weak generation of drivers (except for Hakkinen and maybe Alonso and Raikkonen, to whom he lost when the cars were evenly matched). Schumacher is not a scratch on Senna for example.

Schumacher's competition was weak and team mates were not allowed to challenge him, instead having to act as his rear-gunner. Senna, for example, in an inferior car outclassed him in the first three races of the 1994 season. Senna died and that was his chief rival gone. Ferrari in 1996 were a joke, so there was nothing he could've done. In 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000 he had a car and a team (complete with a team mate who would allow him to win or prevent the opposition from winning) capable of being able to do damage, especially in 1998 on. Who has his rival been since c. 2001? McLaren went down the tubes and he had the best car. For five years it was a question of how many he was going to win. In 2005, with an inferior car, Raikkonen pushed Schumacher all the way, in 2005 and 2006 up comes Alonso with a car just shading the Ferrari for half the season and who loses? Schumacher. There is a strange correlation there. Furthermore, when you think of the things that Senna did in an inferior car, such as: Monaco '84; Portugal '85; Donington '93 etc. it really puts things in perspective.

Schumacher is a Formula One great, certainly the most businessman-like Formula One driver of all time. He did what it took to win and he capitalised on certain situations. Fair enough. I can't fault him for that. However, he is not the greatest Formula One driver of all time. Senna, Clark, Prost, Fangio etc. are the ones who get the honour of vying for that place.

No doubt Schumacher's barmy-army will say Senna was involved in several incidents, however, I'm not sure they can be compared to Schumacher, except maybe in 1994 when Schumacher pulled that stunt on Hill. In 1989 Senna was done out of the title, in 1990 he was nearly screwed again. The officials agreed to switch the pole position and second position place to the other side as the track was filthy. Senna didn't just randomly decide he was going to ram Prost off the track in 1990 (which is what Prost did to Senna in 1989); Schumacher, for fear of being beaten fairly, parked his car at Monaco last year and tried to take off Villenueve in 1997.

In my opinion, Schumacher gets credit for the wrong thing. He is one of the greatest drivers, however, is the greatest leader in Formula One. He went to Ferrari, got in the people he knew well and were good, got the team built around him and got everybody in the team working as hard as they could for him. That is his real achievement.
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Ayrton Senna: WDC 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991
McLaren: WCC 1974, 1984, 1985, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1998, 1999, 2007
McLaren: WDC 1974, 1976, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1998, 1999, 2008
aboldero
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Postby aboldero »

sorry guys, but i've got to say, there really are too many possibilities.....
50s. Ascari, Fangio, Moss... etc.
60s. Clark, Peterson, Stewart, Hill, McLaren, Brabham....
70s. Lauda, Hunt..
80s. Villeneuve, Senna, Prost, Piquet
90s. Schumacher
00s. No-one to rival Schumacher..

these, to name a few, I personally think its impossible to choose one, there really are too many variables there, not least of which is their opposition. I'm an MS fan, but would i say he's the best of all time? Possibly, he's definately right up there, but i couldn't really argue with anyone, as who has really challenged him? since he began to peak in 93/94 onwards, there has benn no-one even close to him in driver skill, most of the champs he didn't win, no-one could have won in his car, but you could probable say the same of Senna or Fangio. But then there's Moss, who even Fangio looked at as equal, easily one of the best, but never chose the best team.

so is there a best of all time???? personally, I'd have to say NO, only best of their era's
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internos2k
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Postby internos2k »

Too many differences between the cars, between the tracks and between the races. My opininion: Last F1: MS, previous:AS, the one before: AA/JMF/JSt
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perch
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Postby perch »

Senna. It was his his determination to drive fast.
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