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[overboost]

Bring it, your tears sustain me.

Sorry, couldn't resist, but it was meant in the nicest possible way.

Overboost, I actually saw that after I had posted so I'll stop trying to be nice about this. Wonder why no reprimand for Hamilton then? The evidence is as clear as day.

I can well imagine the rhetoric of where you are referring to if I am thinking correctly. But it's just how it goes. Some people cannot accept that their idol is human and as such makes incorrect/dishonest/downright bewildering decisions. Neither behaved in a manner befitting that of a multiple WDC but it goes with the territory.

And it turns out Vettel has been given 3 points on his license. Another 3 and he gets a race ban. At this stage, I would put money on Vettel being given another 3 points for the slightest thing.....

So, to recap, a driver brakes tests another driver, the victim of the brake test pulls along side accidently nudging the other driver whilst travelling at 32mph and gets a 10 second stop/go which cost him a race win and 3 points on his licence which could potentially cost him the WDC. Yet a driver holding onto a loose part of his car whilst going at full racing speed on a street track with no run off areas and driving one handed is deemed ok? I don't condone either's behaviour but the stewarding decisions are just totally inconsistent.

It's just like in hockey, it seems like the player who retaliates always gets the penalty! I always remember those nasty Russians getting away with their spear checks and the Canadians in the box after setting them straight with a well aimed fist.

The reason given for no Hamilton penalty from the FIA is that they couldn't find any evidence of a brake test. I guess they didn't look to hard as it took me 5 mins of reading about the race to come across that picture!

I guess it is true what they say that FIA stands for 'Mercedes International Assistance'.

[Stephen]

Well actually it was a classic brake test as can be clearly seen. From the graphic apparently Hamilton decelerated from 90 to 49 km/h and used the brake:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-analys ... est-vettel - The FIA disagree, although next they'll tell us the world is flat. I'm going to go now, I plan to sit at a junction, pull off when clear and when the car behind moves off brake for no reason at all. CARNAGE, I WANT CARNAGE.

[overboost]

[overboost]

Well actually it was a classic brake test as can be clearly seen. From the graphic apparently Hamilton decelerated from 90 to 49 km/h and used the brake:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-analys ... est-vettel - The FIA disagree, although next they'll tell us the world is flat. I'm going to go now, I plan to sit at a junction, pull off when clear and when the car behind moves off brake for no reason at all. CARNAGE, I WANT CARNAGE.

Unbelievable they claim that Hamilton didn't use the brakes even though it is clear in the telemetry from the car that he did.

Alternate facts are in vogue it seems.

[myownalias]

What a race, plenty of drama and thrills throughout the race, multiple safety cars, red flags and a very unexpected winner, or was it, Ricciardo always seems to be in the box seat when Mercedes or Ferrari f**k up. Big props to Lance Stroll, since his scoring points in Canada, he seems like a different driver, finishing third in a race where more experienced drivers lost their heads is amazing.

Talking of those leaving their heads, what the heck was Vettel thinking, he threw away a guaranteed win by losing his head and deliberately banging wheels with Hamilton. I bet some words with be had with him at Maranello. Vettel is a clearly a great talent, but he is often a crybaby and petulant like a child who has not gotten their own way.

I'm happy to see Daniel back on the top step, does anyone dislike Ricciardo, he is the most likable driver on the field, I'm definitely a fan of him as a person and driver.

[myownalias]

Well actually it was a classic brake test as can be clearly seen. From the graphic apparently Hamilton decelerated from 90 to 49 km/h and used the brake:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-analys ... est-vettel - The FIA disagree, although next they'll tell us the world is flat. I'm going to go now, I plan to sit at a junction, pull off when clear and when the car behind moves off brake for no reason at all. CARNAGE, I WANT CARNAGE.

Unbelievable they claim that Hamilton didn't use the brakes even though it is clear in the telemetry from the car that he did.

Alternate facts are in vogue it seems.

Are there any actual rules that prohibit the use of the brakes during an SC period? The alleged brake test and retaliation were both stupid as it could have ended one or both drivers races. I believe it to be Vettel's responsibility to not crash into the back of Hamilton as the following driver, unless there is a rule that says otherwise, either way, it was a petty reaction.

[overboost]

Lauda now theatening Vettel with physical violence:

Niki Lauda: “To do that I don’t understand. Vettel is a decent guy normally. This I don’t understand. He is crazy. Lewis will hit him one day. Not with the car but with his fist.”

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/06/26/ ... t-one-day/

[andrew]

Talking of those leaving their heads, what the heck was Vettel thinking, he threw away a guaranteed win by losing his head and deliberately banging wheels with Hamilton. I bet some words with be had with him at Maranello. Vettel is a clearly a great talent, but he is often a crybaby and petulant like a child who has not gotten their own way.

The more I see the footage, the more I believe the 2nd contact was not intended. Cannot fathom out why any driver would risk such a move (unless they were called Senna, in which case such a move makes them a hero but that's another discussion for another day). Looks to me like Vettel was paying more attention to his fancy hand signals that the direction in which the car was going. Either way, it was dumb of him to react to a brake test.

Lauda now theatening Vettel with physical violence:

Niki Lauda: “To do that I don’t understand. Vettel is a decent guy normally. This I don’t understand. He is crazy. Lewis will hit him one day. Not with the car but with his fist.”

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/06/26/ ... t-one-day/

It'll be hand-bags at dawn.

[andrew]

andrew - what a blast from the past! How have ya been?

I'm doing ok. Took a long break from F1 forums as I became increasingly tired of their toxicity. Ended up not watching F1 for quite a while.

Thought I'd try a few posts here seeing as it looks like it's possible to have contrasting views again and not have to put up with passive aggressive twats pulling you into pointless and tiresome bickering.

Where's me old mucker LewEng? No sign of him anywhere.

[darwin dali]

Well, we had a big fall out some time ago and the most fervent bunch of Lewis-is-our-god-worshippers took off or were banned for their stupid behavior. Now we're having a nice little group of Formula One fans who talk to each other in a civil manner. LewEng very rarely pops in - I miss that little bugger as well.
At any rate: welcome back!

[sagi58]

...I don't condone either's behaviour but the stewarding decisions are just totally inconsistent.

As Sonny and Cher sang, and the beat goes on...
La de da de de, la de da de da...

Here's hoping they haven't decided that Vettel is this year's target...
oh, wait... he's ahead... of course, he's this year's target...

[andrew]

Well, we had a big fall out some time ago and the most fervent bunch of Lewis-is-our-god-worshippers took off or were banned for their stupid behavior. Now we're having a nice little group of Formula One fans who talk to each other in a civil manner. LewEng very rarely pops in - I miss that little bugger as well.
At any rate: welcome back!

It's a pity they took quite a few decent members with them though. Especially given the severe lack of knowledge, impartiallity and reasoning they are so happy to display publicly on their own forum without hiding behind a login screen. But hey-ho, that's the way life goes.

[Steve_M]

How do we define or what is the difference between braking to slow down to let the very slow pace car disappear and brake testing?

If it was a brake test why did Vettel think he could be judge jury and executioner as there's no way he could have had a chance to gather all the evidence and facts before doing what he did AND he must have known that?
If he lacks the ability and or desire to control a race car whilst gesticulating and steering on a straight road and also slightly going ahead and technically overtaking then why did he choose to risk his position by doing so?

Even at the slow pace they were going at the time if it was an accident and he didn't mean to drive into Hamilton that makes it worse (second impact I'm referring to). I'd rather he deliberately drove into Hamilton rather than he couldn't help it and he naturally drove badly! But had the wheel gone onto Hamilton's wheel not from a side impact but drove onto the wheel that could have flipped the car up enough albeit fairly slowly to dump it on top of Hamilton's. That's IF, it didn't, but was that through luck or judgement?

Questions questions questions, I know. I'm only posing them I'm not necessarily expecting anyone to answer or be able to them - not even by Vettel!

[sagi58]

Well, we had a big fall out some time ago and the most fervent bunch of Lewis-is-our-god-worshippers took off or were banned for their stupid behavior. Now we're having a nice little group of Formula One fans who talk to each other in a civil manner. LewEng very rarely pops in - I miss that little bugger as well.
At any rate: welcome back!

It's a pity they took quite a few decent members with them though. Especially given the severe lack of knowledge, impartiallity and reasoning they are so happy to display publicly on their own forum without hiding behind a login screen. But hey-ho, that's the way life goes.

I don't believe anyone was kidnapped, coerced, or blackmailed...
so, we'll have to put it down to a difference of opinion...

[andrew]

How do we define or what is the difference between braking to slow down to let the very slow pace car disappear and brake testing?

If it was a brake test why did Vettel think he could be judge jury and executioner as there's no way he could have had a chance to gather all the evidence and facts before doing what he did AND he must have known that?
If he lacks the ability and or desire to control a race car whilst gesticulating and steering on a straight road and also slightly going ahead and technically overtaking then why did he choose to risk his position by doing so?

Even at the slow pace they were going at the time if it was an accident and he didn't mean to drive into Hamilton that makes it worse (second impact I'm referring to). I'd rather he deliberately drove into Hamilton rather than he couldn't help it and he naturally drove badly! But had the wheel gone onto Hamilton's wheel not from a side impact but drove onto the wheel that could have flipped the car up enough albeit fairly slowly to dump it on top of Hamilton's. That's IF, it didn't, but was that through luck or judgement?

Questions questions questions, I know. I'm only posing them I'm not necessarily expecting anyone to answer or be able to them - not even by Vettel!

Having never driven anything as near as powerful as an F1 car I cannot comment on how easy it is to accelerate, gesticulate, look in the wrong direction, speak into a radio and drive in a straight line whilst having a severe case of the red mist. Probably fair to say he meant to move towards Hamilton but I can't believe the impact was deliberate given the chances of him damaging his own car for nothing. I don't think Vettel was ever ahead. Certainly didn't look like it from the footage I saw. Doubtless, had he been ahead, he'd had been given a penalty for that.

As for being able to judge if it was a brake test, the car behind can very easily do that. A sudden deceleration would be instantly noticeable, which it was. The arse end of the car in front getting closer at a quicker rate than expected would be a bit unexpected. Plus the graphics that were shown did show Hamilton apply his brakes....

Had Vettel been called Senna or Hamilton he'd have been thought of as a "racer" and the excuse that he's "passionate" would be trotted out. It was the same when Schumacher was on the go, he was always in the wrong in the eyes of the British media and fans even when he was in the right (dude was bloody ruthless and bent the rules a couple times but it made for some damn fine racing and ultimately, that's what he want to see, not this sanitised PC Scalextrix track processional push the magic button to pass crap). It'll be the same with the next (German) driver who goes up against a Brit.

The way I see it, the pair of them were playing silly beggers, simple as that. But that's part of the game. Out-psych your opponent. At least Vettel has said he will talk to Hamilton away from the press and quite rightly discuss the incident behind closed doors. Meanwhile, the BBC are still quoting Hamilton's thinly veiled threats of hitting him with his handbag.