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[CookinFlat6]

So what happened in the Todt/MS/Brawn era? I dont recall Ferrari based in Oxfordshire

[LRW]

They had different (better) engineers?

[CookinFlat6]

So why cant they get different (better) engineers now, whats changed? less money? no, Italy less attractive,? no, Ferrari less attractive? no

[Denthúl]

So what happened in the Todt/MS/Brawn era? I dont recall Ferrari based in Oxfordshire

To be fair, they did poach key members of staff from a successful, British-based team in order to get to that stage...

I'm not saying that there aren't good engineers available to them, just that their options are more limited by virtue of their position and roles with other teams may be more attractive. It isn't the only factor (as has already been pointed out, they were also previously able to lap their own track for as long as there was daylight available to test any new parts), but I believe it's fairly important. Brawn and Byrne, crucial figures in the winning streak, both left the team at the end of 2006, and Jean Todt a year later. Most of these positions were filled by Italian staff, and if you look at the timing, it does fit in with the way they have slipped back from the very front.

What they really need to do is follow Mercedes' lead and start to rebuild their team, hiring the best talent they can get their hands on.

[CookinFlat6]

I'm not saying that there aren't good engineers available to them, just that their options are more limited by virtue of their position and roles with other teams may be more attractive. It isn't the only factor (as has already been pointed out, they were also previously able to lap their own track for as long as there was daylight available to test any new parts), but I believe it's fairly important. Brawn and Byrne, crucial figures in the winning streak, both left the team at the end of 2006, and Jean Todt a year later. Most of these positions were filled by Italian staff, and if you look at the timing, it does fit in with the way they have slipped back from the very front.

What they really need to do is follow Mercedes' lead and start to rebuild their team, hiring the best talent they can get their hands on.

One of them was Aldo Costa who was unceremoniously dumped, yet is now a star member of the Merc team and responsible for the mechanical grip on the monster Merc, possibly the biggest differentiatior amongst the Merc family teams.
And they hired Fry and Allinson from England, demoting one for the other, this does not seem like a team with limited access to a talent pool

Maybe you are right and a Merc style overhaul and rebuilding of the staff is required from top down. But surely they missed the best time to do that - in time for 2014

[LRW]

So why cant they get different (better) engineers now, whats changed? less money? no, Italy less attractive,? no, Ferrari less attractive? no

Ive no idea. Maybe the quality of engineers in Italy is just worse? Maybe engineering is a less attractive industry as a whole in Italy??

[Hammer278]

Can someone vote for the first option, I'm feeling a bit OCD tonight.

[CookinFlat6]

That would be Buds position if he bothered to vote

the second option is Lew, the rest I am not sure. Curiously, I dont think any real Ferrari supporters have added to this yet, except the vote for option 5 is a Tifosi

[Nin-Chin]

Ferrari just don't seem to have that edge that they normally have.

[1Lemon]

Can someone vote for the first option, I'm feeling a bit OCD tonight.

Oh s*** sorry, I made it worse!

[Hammer278]

Can someone vote for the first option, I'm feeling a bit OCD tonight.

Oh s*** sorry, I made it worse!

Tell me something new Lemonade....

[NHcheese]

I seriously dont see ferrari coming back to winning form. They have good financial support, so it could be due to just bad employees. Maybe good engineers just go to mercedes and red bull now.

[bud]

Italian design/ engineering is known for its heart stopping beauty. It arouses emotion. It looks gorgeous.

German design/ engineering is known for its robustness and relentless attention to detail.

If you want a car to turn heads and give you orgasms when you drive it, you'd buy a Ferrari. If you want all your needs taken care of and a car that will go on for ever, you'd buy a Merc.
Me, I'd go for the orgasm every time

But in this time of change, it's the German planning and attention to detail that has borne fruit. Ok it's not just about the engine, but that's the biggest thing that's making the difference.
I apologise for the stereotyping, but I do think elements of truth are in there.

Interesting idea, even if a little conceptualised. However that doesnt explain how RBR are ahead with a FRENCH engine. I never hear of French attention to detail or heart stopping beauty, if anything the French designers tend to give up fairly easily and throw the white towel in

I think you're both missing the fact that most of the key designers for all three teams are British

[What's Burning?]

I'd work for Ferrari because I know they'd have the best cafeteria.

[LewEngBridewell]

That would be Buds position if he bothered to vote

the second option is Lew, the rest I am not sure. Curiously, I dont think any real Ferrari supporters have added to this yet, except the vote for option 5 is a Tifosi

Yup I voted number 2.