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[CookinFlat6]

Which part was the joke?

[sagi58]

First of all, I can read and I can do simple Maths to determine that 16 million is 16 times more than 1 million.
I can also subtract 1 million from 16 million is a difference of 15 million. So, cut out the condescension.

Secondly, since Ron Dennis was at McLaren when both Button and Magnussen signed their respective contracts, it
stands to reason that he won't be in the least bit surprised when he has to sign either's pay cheque. So, not sure
why there would be any question of fraud. Oh, wait, was that your attempt at humour? Or just another ""not so""
subtle attempt at putting down Whitmarsh, without naming him??

As for

Which part was the joke?

there really seems no point, since your sense of humour seems to be limited to ridiculing anything Ferrari.
But, saying that would make me guilty of making a generalization!! Then again, no harm, no foul, since
I seem to be in the right sort of company for that, eh?

[Hammer278]

Sagi, the point everyone's trying to make is that Button will have to comprehensively BEAT Magnussen this year. The oldest fossil in F1 vs a newbie, you'd expect a minimum of Button outqualifying Kevin 3/5ths of the time and a points comfortably ahead, not by a whisker like he did with Perez last year even after the team having to call Perez off from intimidating the on track.

So let's give Button the benefit of the doubt (even after all these years) and see how he outperforms Kevin to justify all that money going into his bottomless pit of a wallet.

[madbrad]

I like Maggie but I think Button will out Q him most of the time. Maybe 80% of the time.
I know it's off topic but, The car might be the season's dominator. One of its drivers could get the WDC. I favor Button IF it's gonna be a McLaren. I don't mean I want that, I mean I favor him over Maggie, odds wise. Or do you guys expect the first ever 1st season WDC? I would be up for that!

[CookinFlat6]

Secondly, since Ron Dennis was at McLaren when both Button and Magnussen signed their respective contracts, it
stands to reason that he won't be in the least bit surprised when he has to sign either's pay cheque.

Ron was not in control at McLaren when the Button contract was signed. In case you havent heard he has been trying to regain control for the past 2 years, obviously because he could see that the team was being wrecked by those type of decision.
Ron was a minority shareholder with no executive power over the team. Its obvious that the team was wrecked by its results last year and thats due in part to paying a the 3rd highest wage. That 16 mill did nothing to get the team out of trouble or lead them or provide any useful technical feedback. That 16 mill was outqualified by the 1 mill Perez
Yup it appears like a fraud (special favour for a special friend unrelated to performance) , but this is unproveable, and therefore gross incompetence is the 'nicer' explanation. Hence he has been sent packing and replaced with Eric Boiler

[CookinFlat6]

I like Maggie but I think Button will out Q him most of the time. Maybe 80% of the time.

Do you really think Perez would outqualify Mag almost 100% then?

[madbrad]

I like Maggie but I think Button will out Q him most of the time. Maybe 80% of the time.

Do you really think Perez would outqualify Mag almost 100% then?

The math looks that way but that is only assuming 2013 is reran with Perez and Mag. This is a different year and the cars are very different. I also see mag not fully coming to terms with the car with all the pressure in Q.

[sagi58]

Secondly, since Ron Dennis was at McLaren when both Button and Magnussen signed their respective contracts, it
stands to reason that he won't be in the least bit surprised when he has to sign either's pay cheque.

Ron was not in control at McLaren when the Button contract was signed. In case you havent heard he has been trying to regain control for the past 2 years, obviously because he could see that the team was being wrecked by those type of decision.
Ron was a minority shareholder with no executive power over the team. Its obvious that the team was wrecked by its results last year and thats due in part to paying a the 3rd highest wage. That 16 mill did nothing to get the team out of trouble or lead them or provide any useful technical feedback. That 16 mill was outqualified by the 1 mill Perez
Yup it appears like a fraud (special favour for a special friend unrelated to performance) , but this is unproveable, and therefore gross incompetence is the 'nicer' explanation. Hence he has been sent packing and replaced with Eric Boiler

Again, your patronizing tone grates on the nerves. I know all the above, as I can also read!
REGARDLESS of how much "power" Ron Denis did/did not have in the day-to-day workings
at the F1 team, he would have been aware of ALL personnel changes.

As for your opinion of Button, it would seem that Dennis doesn't agree with you, since he has
taken Button under his wing (pardon the pun):

 wrote:">Return of Ron Dennis gives Jenson Button a timely boost at McLarenButton declined to speak about his bereavement, but admitted that he had spent much of the past 48 hours following his father’s funeral in Monaco talking with McLaren’s returning chief of operations, Ron Dennis. And technical issues surrounding the launch of the MP4-29 were not on the agenda. We can reliably infer that Dennis supplied an avuncular ear to help Button process the ravages wrought by grief.

Buffeted by an emotional maelstrom, Button confessed that he had considered all options including, it is fair to assume, calling it a day. That he chose to fulfil his professional obligations yesterday suggests the pastoral care of Dennis had a calming effect. Button will take his seat at the first test of the season in Jerez next week and races on.

There will be a time, he said, to address how much his father meant to him and what it might mean to win again in honour of the man who sacrificed so much in support of his son. “I have spoken with him [Dennis] a lot in the last few days, we’ve had some good chats but about other things, not many about his expectations for the team,” Button said, adding: “Everything goes through your mind, that’s all I have to say on it.”

Sounds like Dennis wants Button in a good place, so that he can race for McLaren.

[Hammer278]

I'd like to hear Dennis' own words reg Button before forming any opinion. All Button's said was there have some chats......some chatting is necessary, like Dennis reminding Button that he actually needs to drive again, instead of simply picking up hefty paychecks for wading his way through circuits and quacking about "grip/balance issues".

[racechick]

I think it's terribly sad for Jenson that his father died so suddenly. Like lewis', father he supported his son wholeheartedly in his racing career. A terrible loss to Jenson and all the worse because it was unexpected and he wasn't that old really.
I applaud Dennis for offering emotional support.

But it has nothing to do with Jenson's contract, and the fact that he's paid so much money.

[CookinFlat6]

Secondly, since Ron Dennis was at McLaren when both Button and Magnussen signed their respective contracts, it
stands to reason that he won't be in the least bit surprised when he has to sign either's pay cheque.

Ron was not in control at McLaren when the Button contract was signed. In case you havent heard he has been trying to regain control for the past 2 years, obviously because he could see that the team was being wrecked by those type of decision.
Ron was a minority shareholder with no executive power over the team. Its obvious that the team was wrecked by its results last year and thats due in part to paying a the 3rd highest wage. That 16 mill did nothing to get the team out of trouble or lead them or provide any useful technical feedback. That 16 mill was outqualified by the 1 mill Perez
Yup it appears like a fraud (special favour for a special friend unrelated to performance) , but this is unproveable, and therefore gross incompetence is the 'nicer' explanation. Hence he has been sent packing and replaced with Eric Boiler

Again, your patronizing tone grates on the nerves. I know all the above, as I can also read!
REGARDLESS of how much "power" Ron Denis did/did not have in the day-to-day workings
at the F1 team, he would have been aware of ALL personnel changes.

As for your opinion of Button, it would seem that Dennis doesn't agree with you, since he has
taken Button under his wing (pardon the pun):

 wrote:">Return of Ron Dennis gives Jenson Button a timely boost at McLarenButton declined to speak about his bereavement, but admitted that he had spent much of the past 48 hours following his father’s funeral in Monaco talking with McLaren’s returning chief of operations, Ron Dennis. And technical issues surrounding the launch of the MP4-29 were not on the agenda. We can reliably infer that Dennis supplied an avuncular ear to help Button process the ravages wrought by grief.

Buffeted by an emotional maelstrom, Button confessed that he had considered all options including, it is fair to assume, calling it a day. That he chose to fulfil his professional obligations yesterday suggests the pastoral care of Dennis had a calming effect. Button will take his seat at the first test of the season in Jerez next week and races on.

There will be a time, he said, to address how much his father meant to him and what it might mean to win again in honour of the man who sacrificed so much in support of his son. “I have spoken with him [Dennis] a lot in the last few days, we’ve had some good chats but about other things, not many about his expectations for the team,” Button said, adding: “Everything goes through your mind, that’s all I have to say on it.”

Sounds like Dennis wants Button in a good place, so that he can race for McLaren.

Once again you have changed the goal posts without justifying your previous claims. This so called flanking manoeuvre has been noted remand again

We were talking about the amount of money the team have agreed to pay Button. Ron has to pay it. It's got nothing to do with liking that's his driver and ofcourse he gives him support with bereavement

[1Lemon]

Button is and always has been bad at quali though, he's good in the races but not so good in quali (I think Canada 2012 was the first race he ever got Pole in a McLaren to the surprise of everyone, including himself).

[sagi58]

Once again you have changed the goal posts without justifying your previous claims. This so called flanking manoeuvre has been noted remand again

We were talking about the amount of money the team have agreed to pay Button. Ron has to pay it. It's got nothing to do with liking that's his driver and ofcourse he gives him support with bereavement

And, once again, you don't like it when I do the same thing you do, eh? I learnt from the best!!

First of all, your portryal of Ron Dennis as a victim of fraudulent behaviour is completely laughable.
Secondly, even IF he was ordered to stay an arm's length away from the F1 team, there is NO way
you could convince anyone that he wasn't privy to the contract offered to Button who, at the time,
was the reigning world champion. It would seem to me that all the hoopla surrounding McLaren's
"new" all-English line-up would have been hard to miss, especially in-house.

By the way, Dennis is NOT paying it out of his own pocket, it's company money, and as such it would
have been budgeted for. NOTHING fraudulent in that.

As for not getting their money's worth in the shape of titles, I would suggest to you that Button isn't
the only driver at McLaren that let the team down in terms of performance, over the years. I would
also suggest, he won't be the last driver to do so, either. Just as the team let the drivers down and
Lady Luck didn't shine on anyone!!

That's because F1 is not only about the car, it's not only about the driver, it's not only about the team,
nor is it only about luck. It's a combination of all the right things happening at the right time.

Thus, to simplistically blame Whitmarsh or Button for McLaren's "not so great season" is about looking
for a scapegoat.

[What's Burning?]

That's because F1 is not only about the car, it's not only about the driver, it's not only about the team,
nor is it only about luck. It's a combination of all the right things happening at the right time.

Thus, to simplistically blame Whitmarsh or Button for McLaren's "not so great season" is about looking
for a scapegoat.

How you can say that with a straight face while other threads are littered with you blaming Pirelli and Massa for Ferrari's not so great season is a true skill.

[spankyham]

That's because F1 is not only about the car, it's not only about the driver, it's not only about the team,
nor is it only about luck. It's a combination of all the right things happening at the right time.

Thus, to simplistically blame Whitmarsh or Button for McLaren's "not so great season" is about looking
for a scapegoat.

How you can say that with a straight face while other threads are littered with you blaming Pirelli and Massa for Ferrari's not so great season is a true skill.

I thought everyone knew Pirelli did a rubbish job last year