Bruno Senna

[spankyham]

I know this is a Senna thread but I didn't like Maldonado retiring today....50% because it meant Alonso gets more points, 50% because he drove very well and I enjoyed his battle with Alonso.

Alonso was ahead of Maldonado before he retired.

But wasnt Maldonado closing in on Alonso....? (I could be wrong). ....

Nope, they had a great and fair battle for the spot, but Pastor was holding Nando up.

[Big Azza]

I'm not sure what to think of senna. I think he got a lot of hype pre-season, so maybe that's why he seems more...idk...disappointing? than a lot of people thought he was going to be.

I didn't believe the hype. I guess everyone thought he would at least be better than Maldonado... But then... who would've expected what happened in Spain this year?

[What's Burning?]

Also, for some drivers, I monitor their every lap during races, using the F1Official Timing app. There have been many occasions this year Bruno lapped as fast as the front runners. Yesterday his laptimes after his first pitstop were consistently faster than the front runners. His fastest laptime was made on lap 27, on the harder compound, and that time ended up 9th fastest, after the front runners had lighter fuelload and softer compound on.

This is something he has been doing on more race occasions than 1.

So there is probably no doubt the guy is a very good race driver, but a bad qualifier.
The question is, and I cannot understand that :

Why would a driver be slow during qualifying but be fast during races?? Any ideas? I don't really think him losing FP1 on many occasions is a real factor, because when he didn't had to give up FP1 , it didn't make much of a difference...

The answer to the second part of your post is that many times while the race has already settled in, many of the leading drivers are driving to a race pace. For fuel, tire and calculated race lenght, so they drive to a pace. Whether that pace is slow or fast it doesn't matter as they're the ones in front often by 30 or 40 seconds or higher by that point and can afford to drive at a pace that's half a second or more slower than the cars in back that are trying harder to catch up to the front runners. That's the explanation for what you see.

[Jabberwocky]

Well, let's talk about Bruno. What do we really make of him?

Let's forget the Senna name and the fact he only started racing back in 2004. It will probably affect the way we globally judge him, but those arguments could make for a thread of it's own.

The thing is, I don't really know what to make of it all.

We had last year, where his qualifying was good but his races were not consistent. Now, we have this year, where he s*cks at qualifying but is very constistent during races.

There is no doubt that Senna's overall performances are greatly affected by his starting position. Had he been a consistent Q3 qualifier, like Pastor is, no doubt he would have had many more points. So that's a big down on his performances.

Now his races. If you know he has started back down a lot and so has gotten involved in incidents more often, the fact he has scored points on many occasions is impressive. Again yesterday he started 22th and was up to finish into the points, had it not have been for him losing 1st gear after 10 laps and losing KERS near the end of the race (which resulted in a DNF).

Also, for some drivers, I monitor their every lap during races, using the F1Official Timing app. There have been many occasions this year Bruno lapped as fast as the front runners. Yesterday his laptimes after his first pitstop were consistently faster than the front runners. His fastest laptime was made on lap 27, on the harder compound, and that time ended up 9th fastest, after the front runners had lighter fuelload and softer compound on.

This is something he has been doing on more race occasions than 1.

So there is probably no doubt the guy is a very good race driver, but a bad qualifier.
The question is, and I cannot understand that :

Why would a driver be slow during qualifying but be fast during races?? Any ideas? I don't really think him losing FP1 on many occasions is a real factor, because when he didn't had to give up FP1 , it didn't make much of a difference...

Maybe he sets the car up more for the race than compromising on the race for qualifying pace?!

[XploZiV]

Also, for some drivers, I monitor their every lap during races, using the F1Official Timing app. There have been many occasions this year Bruno lapped as fast as the front runners. Yesterday his laptimes after his first pitstop were consistently faster than the front runners. His fastest laptime was made on lap 27, on the harder compound, and that time ended up 9th fastest, after the front runners had lighter fuelload and softer compound on.

This is something he has been doing on more race occasions than 1.

So there is probably no doubt the guy is a very good race driver, but a bad qualifier.
The question is, and I cannot understand that :

Why would a driver be slow during qualifying but be fast during races?? Any ideas? I don't really think him losing FP1 on many occasions is a real factor, because when he didn't had to give up FP1 , it didn't make much of a difference...

The answer to the second part of your post is that many times while the race has already settled in, many of the leading drivers are driving to a race pace. For fuel, tire and calculated race lenght, so they drive to a pace. Whether that pace is slow or fast it doesn't matter as they're the ones in front often by 30 or 40 seconds or higher by that point and can afford to drive at a pace that's half a second or more slower than the cars in back that are trying harder to catch up to the front runners. That's the explanation for what you see.

I know what you mean but that's not what I wanted to say. Surely that happens too, but I was talking about moments when the top drivers weren't already "cruising" near the end of the race. For instance, I've compared his laptimes on the harder compound, which he got after his first pitstop, to similar top drivers who pitted for the same compound around that time. It's not that I see him getting fresh rubber and say "oh, look how fast he is compared to the top 3". He would obviously be faster if they were on old rubber.

To give you an example :

Button pitted on lap 14, Bruno pitted on lap 10 and Alonso on lap 11.

They all had started on the supersoft compound, and switched to the soft compound during that pitstop.

I will start from lap 16 up to lap 24 (Senna pitted again after that), because that would mean Button had an exit lap under his belt to get up to speed with the tyres.

Button Alonso Senna
16 1:55.277 16 1:57.128 16 1:55.047
17 1:55.920 17 1:56.229 17 1:55.606
18 1:55.965 18 1:55.465 18 1:55.880
19 1:55.913 19 1:55.032 19 1:56.276
20 1:55.829 20 1:55.012 20 1:56.768
21 1:56.347 21 1:55.155 21 1:56.407
22 1:56.504 22 1:55.239 22 1:56.907
23 1:55.924 23 1:56.109 23 1:57.764
24 1:56.424 24 1:55.492 24 1:56.625

To be fair :

Alonso had to pass Perez on lap 16 and Hulkenberg on lap 17, and chased Maldonado from then on (+4s)
Button had no traffic during those laps and was chasing Vettel (+3.7s on lap 16)
Senna had no traffic during those laps and was chasing Raikkonen and Schumacher during those laps (+2.7s on lap 16)
Senna had lost his first gear on lap 10.
Senna caught Raikkonen and Schumacher on lap 19 (+1.4s) and passed Raikonnen on lap 23.
Button and Maldonado were overall the fastest during that time.


I can't use other laps because of the SC interventions and Senna's KERS dropout and retirement after the last SC.

So as you can see, when everyone is racing and chasing each other, with no traffic or real dirty air, he pretty much matches them, even with a loss of 1st gear.
That's something I had seen on previous occasions too.

So that's why I don't get why he has such troubles during qualif but be fast during races.

[XploZiV]

Well, let's talk about Bruno. What do we really make of him?

Let's forget the Senna name and the fact he only started racing back in 2004. It will probably affect the way we globally judge him, but those arguments could make for a thread of it's own.

The thing is, I don't really know what to make of it all.

We had last year, where his qualifying was good but his races were not consistent. Now, we have this year, where he s*cks at qualifying but is very constistent during races.

There is no doubt that Senna's overall performances are greatly affected by his starting position. Had he been a consistent Q3 qualifier, like Pastor is, no doubt he would have had many more points. So that's a big down on his performances.

Now his races. If you know he has started back down a lot and so has gotten involved in incidents more often, the fact he has scored points on many occasions is impressive. Again yesterday he started 22th and was up to finish into the points, had it not have been for him losing 1st gear after 10 laps and losing KERS near the end of the race (which resulted in a DNF).

Also, for some drivers, I monitor their every lap during races, using the F1Official Timing app. There have been many occasions this year Bruno lapped as fast as the front runners. Yesterday his laptimes after his first pitstop were consistently faster than the front runners. His fastest laptime was made on lap 27, on the harder compound, and that time ended up 9th fastest, after the front runners had lighter fuelload and softer compound on.

This is something he has been doing on more race occasions than 1.

So there is probably no doubt the guy is a very good race driver, but a bad qualifier.
The question is, and I cannot understand that :

Why would a driver be slow during qualifying but be fast during races?? Any ideas? I don't really think him losing FP1 on many occasions is a real factor, because when he didn't had to give up FP1 , it didn't make much of a difference...

Maybe he sets the car up more for the race than compromising on the race for qualifying pace?!

Maybe, but the difference is too large I think. Could it be, apart from his own mistakes during those short runs, he perhaps needs longer runs to get the Pirelli's to match "the window"?

[racechick]

Button is similar. Though not in every instance. He has had lots of races where he cant get the tyres switched on for a qulai lap but runs closer to lewis in the actual race. he's sometimes not made Q3 when Lewis has been on or around pole. Maybe Senna's style is more like Button's.

But I do think Senna feels the pressure of having to deliver to try to save his seat and overcooks it.

[andrew]

It seems he's out of his depth most of the time.

Used to be all for him but after his hopeless season I feel like it was all just self-created hype by Senna and he ain't as good as he'd have us all believe, unfortunately.

[racechick]

I dont think that's entirely fair. I agree he's been disappointing, but there are mitigating circumstances, like no Friday running and pressure over keeping the seat, not coming to car racing till late.
But regarding his name, he cant help that and has never played the 'name' card. He's always tried to deflect talk of his uncle. Proud of him course, but that was Ayrton and he's Bruno, and as far as he's concerned thats it. He comes over as a really nice guy, less intense than Ayrton. I think it will be sad to not see him in F1 if he's forced to leave.

[pilotfriend]

Senna?
A complete waste of time.

[andrew]

I dont think that's entirely fair. I agree he's been disappointing, but there are mitigating circumstances, like no Friday running and pressure over keeping the seat, not coming to car racing till late.

It is fair and there are no mitigating circumstances. He's raced for 2 and a half seasons now (ok one was in an HRT milk float).

[XploZiV]

I dont think that's entirely fair. I agree he's been disappointing, but there are mitigating circumstances, like no Friday running and pressure over keeping the seat, not coming to car racing till late.

It is fair and there are no mitigating circumstances. He's raced for 2 and a half seasons now (ok one was in an HRT milk float).

If you want to be really fair you should also point out that Bruno started in F1 after a year of doing nothing, and with a team that was a complete chaos. The year after he was thrown in a race seat mid season, in a car that was rapidly going backwards because no development was being done.

So yes he had 2 years in F1, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has more experience. Pastor has had 2 years in a team with a good history, knowledge of stuff and the most experienced driver as a teammate. This year he's even lead driver.

[racechick]

Now thats a much fairer evaluation!

[f1ea]

it seems Senna's problems this season are related to the whole 'getting heat into the tires'.

Massa, Button, Raikkonen are fair examples of the same issue.

When a driver sets his car up to work the tires gently.... They'll struggle with getting a fast lap on the call. But when the tires are there, they have great consistent pace.

Williams may still drop Senna because in the end, a team wants points. Unless they can get the car for Senna to like more. So i'd say it'll be a decision they take based on what they are willing to do for the sake of watching Senna develop. Fortunately, several teams are in a similar situation; so even if he's out of Williams he could still get a drive.

Alguersuari/Heikki to Williams/Sauber?
Senna to Caterham?

Heikki needs to move up. And Alguersuari was never bad. Senna is better than several F1 drivers right now.

[f1ea]

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I like this ^^ guy's ^^ style.