Red Bull Engine Mapping

[andrew]

Not cheating, per se, just very good at finding loopholes to exploit.

Which is the job of a racing team, while the FIA's job is to enforce the regs.

Precisely.

It what seperates the best from the rest.

Cheesy and I don't care!

[What's Burning?]

Back to the drawing board Adrian.

[zurich_allan]

Indeed, clearly they found a loophole, or rather a possible (mis)interpretation of the rules that could not be declared illegal on a technicality. Quite right to do that if they can get away with it, if it is technically within the rules. If it's not within the 'spirit' of the rules, then it's for the FIA to clarify the rule in question and tighten the wording to ensure there can be no misinterpretation in the future.

I wouldn't have any problem at all with it personally if it weren't for Horner's incredibly arrogant and idiotic interview on Sky earlier in which he literally said that on one hand, if something is technically within the rules then it's fine (as long as it suits Red Bull), yet if something is against the spirit of the rules then it's not ok for another team to do it (if it doesn't suit Red Bull). I'm sorry, but on the exact same day you cannot contradict yourself like that without looking like a complete fool.

I've always respected Horner and thought he's always handled himself and represented his team excellently and very professionally in the past 7 1/2 seasons, but today he really had an off day of huge proportions in the way he handled himself with the media.

[Jabberwocky]

"The you can not interview me as your not allowed here" made me laugh when the reply was "Yes we can, don't you know the rules"

[The Second Coming]

Seems odd that if a team is doing everything by the letter of the rules, as they (Red Bull) say they are, why then have half of their mechanics line up around the entire rear/side of the car while on the grid to block view of the very area of the car that is in question? What's there to hide if you're being good lads? I'm not insinuating that they're cheating...

I'm jus saying...

To prevent the competition from copying?

If it is controversial or illegal, teams wouldn't be copying it. I suspect they were trying to keep prying medial eyes (cameras) off the key sections of the car. Red Bull have been running this "thing" for several races now and today was the first time they tried to hide the rear of the car from view...and in an obvious manner...with employees forming a soccer-style wall. Sneaky buggers!

I'm just saying...

[darwin dali]

Seems odd that if a team is doing everything by the letter of the rules, as they (Red Bull) say they are, why then have half of their mechanics line up around the entire rear/side of the car while on the grid to block view of the very area of the car that is in question? What's there to hide if you're being good lads? I'm not insinuating that they're cheating...

I'm jus saying...

To prevent the competition from copying?

If it is controversial or illegal, teams wouldn't be copying it. I suspect they were trying to keep prying medial eyes (cameras) off the key sections of the car. Red Bull have been running this "thing" for several races now and today was the first time they trying to hide the rear of the car from view...and in an obvious manner...with employees forming a soccer-style wall. Sneaky buggers!

I'm just saying...

An open glance could still provide clues to the competition as to where AN is going development-wise...

[The Second Coming]

Seems odd that if a team is doing everything by the letter of the rules, as they (Red Bull) say they are, why then have half of their mechanics line up around the entire rear/side of the car while on the grid to block view of the very area of the car that is in question? What's there to hide if you're being good lads? I'm not insinuating that they're cheating...

I'm jus saying...

To prevent the competition from copying?

If it is controversial or illegal, teams wouldn't be copying it. I suspect they were trying to keep prying medial eyes (cameras) off the key sections of the car. Red Bull have been running this "thing" for several races now and today was the first time they trying to hide the rear of the car from view...and in an obvious manner...with employees forming a soccer-style wall. Sneaky buggers!

I'm just saying...

An open glance could still provide clues to the competition as to where AN is going development-wise...

Yes, under normal circumstances. But today, Red Bull were clearly hiding evidence prior to the TWG meeting tomorrow (Monday). I'm sure Red Bull are aware they will come under further fire by their opposition if there is the slightest inference there is an illegal advantage.

I'm just saying...

[What's Burning?]

Seems odd that if a team is doing everything by the letter of the rules, as they (Red Bull) say they are, why then have half of their mechanics line up around the entire rear/side of the car while on the grid to block view of the very area of the car that is in question? What's there to hide if you're being good lads? I'm not insinuating that they're cheating...

I'm jus saying...

To prevent the competition from copying?

If it is controversial or illegal, teams wouldn't be copying it. I suspect they were trying to keep prying medial eyes (cameras) off the key sections of the car. Red Bull have been running this "thing" for several races now and today was the first time they trying to hide the rear of the car from view...and in an obvious manner...with employees forming a soccer-style wall. Sneaky buggers!

I'm just saying...

An open glance could still provide clues to the competition as to where AN is going development-wise...

psst... look a few post up and you'll see where he's going development wise.

It's no coincidence their cars weren't snapping off slow corners like they'd been since Valencia. It's no coincidence that the Red Bull struggled for grip all day long today when the mapping was visited in inspection.

[LRW]

Not cheating, per se, just very good at finding loopholes to exploit.

Erm, yes. Cheating. People might definitely use the word cheating.

This is my interpretation of the statements being issued Sunday morning.

Initial FiA memo: Stewards, RedBull are cheating, look into it.
Stewards memo: Whilst we agree that RedBull are cheating, and are laughing at their excuses, the rules are written so stupidly that we can't enforce it. Dummies.

[LewEngBridewell]

"The you can not interview me as your not allowed here" made me laugh when the reply was "Yes we can, don't you know the rules"

That, and the ridiculous interview with Herbert and Hill.

[andrew]

Not cheating, per se, just very good at finding loopholes to exploit.

Erm, yes. Cheating. People might definitely use the word cheating.

This is my interpretation of the statements being issued Sunday morning.

Initial FiA memo: Stewards, RedBull are cheating, look into it.
Stewards memo: Whilst we agree that RedBull are cheating, and are laughing at their excuses, the rules are written so stupidly that we can't enforce it. Dummies.

Cheating is doing something that is expressly forbidden under the rules.

Exploiting a loophole is not cheating. It what the best have always done.

[LRW]

Not cheating, per se, just very good at finding loopholes to exploit.

Erm, yes. Cheating. People might definitely use the word cheating.

This is my interpretation of the statements being issued Sunday morning.

Initial FiA memo: Stewards, RedBull are cheating, look into it.
Stewards memo: Whilst we agree that RedBull are cheating, and are laughing at their excuses, the rules are written so stupidly that we can't enforce it. Dummies.

Cheating is doing something that is expressly forbidden under the rules.

Exploiting a loophole is not cheating. It what the best have always done.

Well some people sitting at a PC say 'exploiting loophole', and some people with the technical evidence infront of them, and the technical knowledge to know what they are talking about say they are breaking the rules (aka cheating)......

...it became apparent that the maximum torque output of both engines is significantly less in the mid rpm range than previously seen for these engines at other events.

In my opinion this is therefore in breach of Article 5.5.3 of the Technical regulations as the engines are able to deliver more torque at a given engine speed in the mid rpm range. Furthermore this new torque map will artificially alter the aerodynamic characteristics of both cars which is also in contravention of Technical Directive 036-11

[andrew]

Ok so say the car was not race legal. So why not punish Red Bull? Doesn't make sense to me.

[LRW]

Ok so say the car was not race legal. So why not punish Red Bull? Doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't make sense to the rest of us either - welcome to the party.....

[Jabberwocky]

I think this is all just guff. Redbull has come up with an idea that the other teams have not done, no doubt it will take a few months for the other top teams to copy and that is where the problem is. The other teams don't want to spend a few months trying to sort it, instead they would rather have it banned. Just like what was tried with the double diffuser, J damper, F Duct.

I am sure if the Lotus squeezy tube idea worked this race all the teams would of been saying it was a movable aero device.