FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[geetface9]

I honestly think that the fact that she is female has got something to do with this thread. If a male driver turned up at Marussia's door and said Can I be one of your drivers please? Here is my race statistics:-

Races entered: 113
Wins: 1
Podiums: 11
Pole positions: 1
Race win percentage: 0.88%

2012 0 races. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2011 2 races. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2010 20 races. 0 wins. 3 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2009 16 races. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2008 1 race. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2007 23 races. 1 win. 7 podiums. 1 pole position. 0 fastest race laps.
2006 2 races. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2005 2 races. 0 wins. 1 podium. 0 pole positions. ? fastest race laps.
2004 14 races. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2003 12 races. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2002 13 races. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.
2001 8 races. 0 wins. 0 podiums. 0 pole positions. 0 fastest race laps.

The F1 team would probably be polite but tell you to get stuffed! So has the fact she is female got anything to do with the fact that she got that drive?

Indeed this could be a huge factor, especially if somebody wants to sponsor her and bring money to a small team like that purely because they know she will get publicity for being a female driver. Look at danica patrick. Loads of publicity because she's "hot", gets on air a lot because she's a woman, and that's it. Gender is intrinsically tied into the discussion not because of schovenism, but because there have only been a handful in an f1 car and that is the fact of the matter.

[spankyham]

I may be wrong but Is that not an option currently just only with a previous year's model car? I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment. Additionally more testing would allow for further securing of drivers into an F1 program and having them content to stay there for a bit since they're getting seat time and experience.

However, we know more testing would simply widen the chasm between the haves and have nots.

The car has to be two years old and that is simply too old - how old is DRS? As I mentioned look at the changes on steering wheels even in the last 2 years. Some sort of mechanism for rookies to spend serious hours behind the wheel of the current spec cars needs to be found.

[ShoutingNow]

It has happened in a race for a televisied audience to see. Sadly many times. Its a racing driver, that its woman should have no bearing on the situation. Her inexperience and health and safety at the track may need questioning, but her gender, no.

Oh yes, how many female drivers in F1 have we seen lately being killed or involved in near fatal crashes? Bar the one that just happened during testing? Zero.

Like I said before, what something is currently, and what something should be are two different aspects. You're saying that because she's a woman it should have no bearing on the situation, agreed. Unfortunately that's not realistic, it will definitely have a bearing and if one does die, it will take off all over the news. From there the consequences that will follow should be obvious to anyone who's been watching F1 for at least the last 15 years.

Pretending like it's not different or idolising idealistic situations is of the least consequence and has no bearing on the reality of the situation and I know plenty of you here are probably agreeing silently anyway.

Your using a strawman argument though, we don't know the reaction will be like that.

I agree there is institutionalised sexism society that results in increased sympathy towards Women victims, but F1 is clearly a luxury/privileged pursuit (or as Hammer put it "no one put a gun to her head"), so I don't see an over protective feeling toward the dangers of f1 resulting from this, as she knew the dangers when she stepped into the car, and F1 driving doesn't elect the mass sympathy or romantic notions from the general public that say, being a princess does; so I expect the public reaction to be one of individual danger and choice, not nasty F1 against the feeble women.

We don't know the reaction to many incidents will be like, but we can make an educated guess based on past experience, social norms and trends, can't we? I think it goes without it being said. When I said that the death of a female would to etc. I don't mean it as gospel, could there be no reaction? Certainly, but I think a basic deductive process can help conclude that a reaction will occur.

You can't agree with me that we live in a sexist society and then also hold the position that I'm constructing a scenario and attacking that based on what I think will be a reaction. If you claim that society is so and so, my position is automatically valid, or at least partially credible based on past experience.

Of course she knew the dangers, but what's the point of bringing this up? This is a red-herring here, my point was purely that there would be an adverse reaction, which is what you were pointing out as problematic first, yes?

[ShoutingNow]

She doesn't have a super license?? I just assumed she did because she was hired by Marussia as full time test driver. I just assumed without one you couldn't even do the testing she was doing.

Not sure about the female thing. I mean, the title of this thread specifies it, but doing that suggests it isn't newsworthy if a male driver crashes. If a male driver crashes, does anyone start questioning whether men should drive F1 cars or whether it will have a negative effect on men entering the sport? Sounds ridiculous? Why so for women then? The news is that a Marussia driver had a testing accident. Why is gender anything at all?

The thread title suggests it because it shows what the subconscious mind of most people still hold on to, her changing it now just shows the lengths people go to deny the elephant in the room.

Just think about the point you raised, male drivers crashing and people raising issues with that? As opposed to who else driving in F1? Transgender?

Like I said before as well, what is reality is different to what something should be ideally. You're arguing about an ideal situation, how it should be, not what it is. Whether it's going to change is dependent on a whole range of things.

Funnily enough, the title specific posting was done by a female poster here wasn't it? I think that speaks volumes, you're questioning why it's being gender specific, and she was quizzing me as well earlier, yet at the same time, by her own initiative she made it gender-specific. Whether you like to deny it or not, it's engrained in everyone's mind.

[acosmichippo]

With respect to both you guys I think you have both missed my point.

Firstly @acosmichippo The theory I put forward in this post is neither 1) or 2) in your scenarios. It is simply a factor of driving an F1 car and it is pretty unique to F1 cars. The only way any driver learns to manage that is to practice in a safe environment (plenty of open track in front of you). Let me also say that most F1 drivers will tell you that even with a lot of experience, the anti-stall on these cars is very hard to handle (and the dangers are magnified by the power of these cars).

But that theory was before we heard first-hand accounts, like the ones posted here and here. It doesn't sound like anti-stall was the issue at all.

[madbrad]

She doesn't have a super license?? I just assumed she did because she was hired by Marussia as full time test driver. I just assumed without one you couldn't even do the testing she was doing.

Not sure about the female thing. I mean, the title of this thread specifies it, but doing that suggests it isn't newsworthy if a male driver crashes. If a male driver crashes, does anyone start questioning whether men should drive F1 cars or whether it will have a negative effect on men entering the sport? Sounds ridiculous? Why so for women then? The news is that a Marussia driver had a testing accident. Why is gender anything at all?

You are absolutely right. I put 'female' in the title and I shouldnt have done. I was suprised because I didnt think there were any females in F1 at the moment. Anyway, I will remove it from the title because it shouldnt be there.

PS I was unaware of the seriousness of the crash when i first heard about it. I would have written the opening post differently had I known.

@EagleF127 Good post. Agree with all that.

Oh I wasn't singling out your thread title. The press headlines said it and it made its way here. We have another girl, Mrs. Wolff in the Williams. I just assumed everyone in here knew about the two of them. I would have titled the thread "Maria Villota injured in testing accident" because of that assumption. But I wouldn't have even bothered anyway because I would have assumed everyone in here already knew because I knew and I know I'm not on the cutting edge of the F1 news sites like most people in here.

[Jabberwocky]

IMHO
1, based on previous race results she should not of been in the car (no matter if she was male or female) compare her race results to Clos, I am sure we can all agree HRT are of a similar level to Marussia.

2, more testing would of helped here. Yes because the driver would of Ben more aware of anti stall on a race track where it would of been a safer environment.

3, maybe the FIA should overview safety at private tests.

[vlad]

Damn, this really is a bad news... Poor Maria...

[vaptin]

It has happened in a race for a televisied audience to see. Sadly many times. Its a racing driver, that its woman should have no bearing on the situation. Her inexperience and health and safety at the track may need questioning, but her gender, no.

Oh yes, how many female drivers in F1 have we seen lately being killed or involved in near fatal crashes? Bar the one that just happened during testing? Zero.

Like I said before, what something is currently, and what something should be are two different aspects. You're saying that because she's a woman it should have no bearing on the situation, agreed. Unfortunately that's not realistic, it will definitely have a bearing and if one does die, it will take off all over the news. From there the consequences that will follow should be obvious to anyone who's been watching F1 for at least the last 15 years.

Pretending like it's not different or idolising idealistic situations is of the least consequence and has no bearing on the reality of the situation and I know plenty of you here are probably agreeing silently anyway.

Your using a strawman argument though, we don't know the reaction will be like that.

I agree there is institutionalised sexism society that results in increased sympathy towards Women victims, but F1 is clearly a luxury/privileged pursuit (or as Hammer put it "no one put a gun to her head"), so I don't see an over protective feeling toward the dangers of f1 resulting from this, as she knew the dangers when she stepped into the car, and F1 driving doesn't elect the mass sympathy or romantic notions from the general public that say, being a princess does; so I expect the public reaction to be one of individual danger and choice, not nasty F1 against the feeble women.

We don't know the reaction to many incidents will be like, but we can make an educated guess based on past experience, social norms and trends, can't we? I think it goes without it being said. When I said that the death of a female would to etc. I don't mean it as gospel, could there be no reaction? Certainly, but I think a basic deductive process can help conclude that a reaction will occur.

You can't agree with me that we live in a sexist society and then also hold the position that I'm constructing a scenario and attacking that based on what I think will be a reaction. If you claim that society is so and so, my position is automatically valid, or at least partially credible based on past experience.

Of course she knew the dangers, but what's the point of bringing this up? This is a red-herring here, my point was purely that there would be an adverse reaction, which is what you were pointing out as problematic first, yes?

I agree that we are living within a sexist society, but I meant it as a generic description of society, not an absolute indicator of society's reaction to every incident, and that in spite of society's sexism this incident won't be treated particularly harshly due to the sexist notion of the "weak and feeble women", which I think is roughly is what your saying society would react to. Stating I feel society is sexist is kinda supplementary to the logic of my argument I think, I just brought it up as a "point of interest", also I thought the discussion might move onto a general discussion about sexism in society.

I'm arguing the possibility is unlikely. I'll take back what I said about strawmen though, I thought you were arguing the reaction would be inevitable, and the main body of your point was to state the problems with women racing driver due to society's reaction to women getting injured.

The point about her knowing the dangers (and F1 being a luxury pursuit) was that it presents a strong (in my opinion) alternative to your notion about society overreacting. People won't get upset on her behalf, or feel excessively sorry, to the point of vilifying the world of F1, as society may be typically prone to do, as it's clear this was an informed, unpressurised choice by her. It removes the emotion from it, like suicides being reported less than murders; people react stronger to murders.

[What's Burning?]

What's wrong with being sexy?

[andrew]

I find it to be a terrible burden.

[vaptin]

What's wrong with being sexy?

I have actively posted in the Beautiful women section, I assure you.

[madbrad]

Well apparently she's recovering well.

[racechick]

Gary Anderson has written a small piece about it in autosport. Its complicated!! He said he did a similar thing when he drove the Jordan 197 at the Goodwood Festival of speed 15yrs ago. And that many professionals have done the same. He is only speculating based on photos and engine sound. Sounds like the brakes are on and the engine is working against them. He wonders if her initial reaction was to press the clutch with her left foot rather than going for the hand clutch.(Bit like going for a clutch pedal that isnt there in an automatic when you're use to a manual) It was her first time in the car and other F1 experience was last August.It means that even if she pressed the neutral button, with the engine torque fighting the brake torque the gearbox will remain locked in gear and the car will keep going forward.

[LewEngBridewell]

Gary Anderson has written a small piece about it in autosport.

The person stood in front of me on the London Underground had a copy, and the page was open on that VERY article! I read it over his shoulder.