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By Hammer278
#306798
Thought this image might fit in this thread... :P

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By Injen
#306800
Thought this image might fit in this thread... :P

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LMFAO,classic. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

You forgot the "i'm lost" he hasn't even reach Mordor yet and he is lost?
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By myownalias
#306817
1) What do you think is the cause of Jenson's current downturn in form?'

It comes down to a combination of poor setup, especially in Montreal where he lost a massive amount of setup time and not being able to switch on the tyres due to a general lack of mechanical grip, so therefore can't get enough heat into the tyres, spinning the rears up, meaning more stops and loss of traction, and Jenson does not deal well with an oversteering car like some others!

2) Why did McLaren renew jenson's contract for three years?

Because that's the way that McLaren do things; I don't believe that McLaren do short contracts, they tend to like stability over chopping and changing all the time!
By jayjay
#306820
Hi all,
Im new to this forum but i love my F1 and want to share my thoughts on buttons downturn in performance.
I think its because he lacks the one and only skill that I think separates a good driver from a great driver. For button to do well everything in the car has to be perfect and he has to be comfortable with the handling characteristics, everything has to be perfect for him to excel in an F1 car. Great drivers will be able to get into anything and drive it into a reasonable position, sometimes even win a grand prix with a less than perfect machine. Button lacks that greatness and thats not putting him down as an F1 driver but that will always keep him in the ordinary bracket. Great F1 drivers are few and far between and i only see 2 at the minute, and thats not including schumacher. Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso. I feel they are the only 2 drivers on the grid who have time and time again proved that they possess that great skill that puts them way above the rest.
Back to Button, his drop in form directly correlates with Mclaren introducing a new nose to the car in spain. Hamilton was straight on the pace with the update but Button struggled from the start and is still struggling. Changing the nose of an F1 car is a big update and will dramatically change the handling characteristics of the car. Hamilton being the great that he is has adapted and evolved with the car so can extract the performance but Button has felt unsettled and cant get to grips with the new cars traits. I cannot switch the front tyres on was a statement button always makes and this all started from the nose update in barcelona.
Vettel is a double world champion but i dont feel he has the great skill either. The red bull has by far been the best car over the last few seasons due to the blown floor but without it vettel looked lost and took some time to get to grips with it all.
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By Jabberwocky
#306828
By that reckoning are you saying Prost was not a great either? I do agree with you that button needs the car to be spot on. When it is I think his out roight pace is slightly better than lewis, however hitting the perfect spot is few and far between.
By jayjay
#306831
Ill be honest i didnt see much of prosts racing so cant really comment on him. In the older days of F1 being great was probably more of a monumental task because all of the cars were a lot more difficult to drive. So to be an F1 driver full stop would of been quite an acheivement. I do remember one of prosts statements which was you have to win the race in the slowest time possible. For me Button would probably agree with that philosophy. Senna would probably say the total opposite which would be you have to win a race in the fastest time your machine will allow, and i think Hamilton would agree with that statement if made.

I forgot! Hi Truth.
By CookinFlat6
#306862
1) What do you think is the cause of Jenson's current downturn in form?'

I dont subscribe to Jenson having a downturn in form. I believe this is simply Button reverting to his traditional form after a blip upwards. From his first season when Sir Frank decided not to keep him at all costs, to Flabio ditching him for Alonso,to Ross Brawn ditching him despite his winning a WC, all these guys who know the difference between a competent and great driver have all voted with their wallets.
Button then ended up at a hopeless team that were trying to build up from nothing, this suited him perfectly as he could get away with what he is good at - hype and swarmy charm, acting and looking like a race ace, but with a ready made excuse for not achieving. Many questioned his staying with BAR for so long, thinking he was wasting his talent in a bad team. Really Jenson wwas at home, big salary, no pressure and his lack of greatness masked by incompetent management of then Hondas resources. All the years Button was at the team, with all their money and resources they went absolutely nowhere till the miracle of Brawn 2009. Button was out of job, no team boss wanted him, Brawn carried on with the team and Button had a car 2 seconds quicker than the rest. Even then he reverted to his lack of greatness or grit. He was outdriven by his teammate the oldest man on the grid in the 2nd half of the season and just scrapped through with the WC.

So for 13 years he has been mediocre except in a car way faster than the rest, like 2009, and some of 2011, even then he only drove well in a very good car. Lewis by going for broke to beat Vettel made Jenson look good as he had his best season because he had the second best car, and he came second, not even a sniff of challenging the best car driven by Vettel.

So has he lost form? hell no, he is just reverting to his normal standard. problem is that the cars are closer, so he is back to exactly where he has been for 13 years - the back of the grid

2) Why did McLaren renew jenson's contract for three years?

Good question. As I mentioned earlier Brawn, Briatori and Williams all saw through him. Who was Jenson going to con on the back of his lucky lucky WC in 2009?

step up a man infatuated by Jenson, a naive person, a guy who giggles in public, cries real tears and wets himself, step up a certain M Whitmarsh, now I dont even like to think what Jenson gave him or promised him but Martin agreed to do everything he could to make him WC, to guarantee that he would be on an equal footing with possible the best driver in F1, he gave him Lewis' engineer, reshuffled the team etc etc

So now Martin has delivered and he waits with bated breath for Jenson to fulfil his side of the bargain, and discovers he has been mugged off. Once Jenson gets his contract he reverts to his usual self and Martin is left high and dry, no kisses, no returning favours. So to keep his job he has to stop his 'equalisation' of the great and the rubbish. lewis finally gets upgrades, setup and strategy designed for him and not designed for him and lame duck button who has 'special needs'

And so once Lewis is not forced to compromise to accommodate a lame duck who is the apple of the bosses eye, we see the true difference in ability between the two.

Jenson is less brave (slower)than at least 10 of the other drivers, and the ones he is better than are those in cars built on a budget. He has camouflaged this for 13 years, but now the eyes are starting to open and its the end of a dream.
By andrew
#306866
This is not a thread to have a go at Jenson ,but to discuss things. I've a couple of questions i wouldnt mind hearing people's views on.
1) What do you think is the cause of Jenson's current downturn in form?'


If I knew, I'd be an engineer at McLaren. Tyres will be a big factor (last year it was Webber struggling to find a good balance on them, this year it's Button) but it is probably more to do with the overall package of car and tyres not suiting him.

2)Why did McLaren renew jenson's contract for three years?

I dont ask this in the light of his current performances, I was thinking the same thing when it was announced last year. My reasoning? Well jenson is one of the older racers and Lewis is no longer one of the youngest. If Id been doing the contracts Id have kept Jenson on a one year at a time contract(much as Red Bull keep Mark) While looking for a young charger to partner hamilton (the likes of Kobi, Grosjean, Perez). I would have done this with an eye on the future. Thoughts?


When he's on top of the car he gets the job done. He was top dog at McLaren when his contract was renewed last season. Seems sensible to keep the continuity in at least 1 driver.
Last edited by andrew on 11 Jun 12, 21:56, edited 2 times in total.
By CookinFlat6
#306868
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Nice one Lew, says it all

baffled

'I cant drive as fast as the others and I have no explanation like I have had for the last 13 years, I used to say I was good with tyres as I made them last, but now I realise that being slow makes them last, If I admit I am the only one on the grid that cant make the tyres work I will have nothing, so lets just play baffled'
By jayjay
#306875
In Buttons defense i do think he will get to grips with the car sooner rather than later. And he will bring points for the constructors but he needs to hurry up and get it sorted.
he aint no massa.
Mclaren wont have him lagging for too long.
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By myownalias
#306877
I can't defend Jenson's performances in five of the last seven races, in five races, he was piss poor in relation to his team mate; but I don't believe he is as bad a driver as what some are making out; we still have 13 race remaining, there's still a lot of time to turn things around, I still stand by the driver as I have done since he joined the F1 circus in 2000! Maybe in the next few races, Jenson will find his groove and start getting the results although I don't think he'll be able to overhaul his team-mate unless Lewis has a couple of retirememts/no-scores!
By andrew
#306878
Mclaren wont have him lagging for too long.


Hopefully they don't leave him hanging. I'm not a fan of either driver but I prefer him over yon other guy, you know, whathisfacethingmebob - Dave, no that's not it. His name escapes me right now. :hehe:
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