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zurich_allan wrote:On a more serious note, and it's a discussion point, not something I am asserting before the daggers are drawn, the question is, if Benetton were using these aids, and had they been more sporting and not used them, would Senna have been killed or might he still have been with us today?
I agree regarding attitude towards competition, but was in the dark as to what happened off track in '94 - before my time by 3 years. Thanks for that.
One lapse in concentration could kill an F1 driver, not just mechanical failures on a car operating beyond its limit. Senna could have died before Imola, everything's unknown if the circumstances change - speculation seems out of place.
Yeah, I agree that of course any F1 driver could potentially be killed at any time. What I was referring to in specifics was that it was well known at the time that Senna was getting increasingly desperate and pushing the heavily flawed Williams to the limit and beyond because Schumacher was getting so far ahead in the points standings. Now it very much is all 'ifs, buts and maybes', but if the Benetton was indeed using these aids, would they have won the opening races so comfortably and thus would Senna have been pushing the car so hard that he already knew was potentially dangerous (he's on record as having said how dangerous he believed all of the cars were that season, as well as pages of feedback describing how nervous and twitchy the Williams specifically was). I don't know the answer, but I do believe it's a genuinely valid question.
Favourite racing series: F1, Indycar, NASCAR, GP2, F3, Formula E, Trophee Andros, DTM, WTCC, BTCC, World Endurance... etc. etc.
andrew wrote:You mean the move that Damon Hill has since admitted was a desperate lunge on his part?
all he said was in hindsight he should have waited as Schumacher broke his suspension when he went off track.
Still doesn't change the fact Schu deliberately turned in on Hill which he repeated again with Jaques in 97 and got DSQ for the season for it.
I was at the race in 94 with my dad, had seats on pit straight. I still remember a lot of people booing him after Hill parked it. That day paved the way for my dislike of him, he proved he was not a sporting person.
But when Senna did it to Prost with no room for debate it was wonderful. Doesn't matter if you were there or not. The on-car footage from Hill clearly shows Schumahcer going off and retaking the correct line so Hill must (and did) know that Schumacher was going to take the correct line. It's all good though, the correct driver won the championship.
The sum total of Verstappen's "proof" is that Schumacher could make his car do things Verstappen could not. He does not claim he ever saw it or that Benneton offered him the same equipment.
In light of such incontrovertible evidence, how could you not be convinced?
None the less, it hardly is a secret that Schumacher cheated/cheats. He was disqualified from several races for cheating and his entire 1997 WDC result was disqualified on account of his having cheated. If you think he did not sometimes and perhaps often cheat without being found out, or if you think he never cheated by employing banned hardware, you're naiveté is showing.
It was strongly suspected even then, in 1994, that Benneton and Schumacher were cheating. The incidents with Barrichello at Hungary and Korea last season showed that Schumacher still has the instinct to win at any cost, integrity and sportsmanship be damned. The tiger does not change his stripes.
"I'll bet ya a hundred and five thousand dollars you go to sleep before I do." --Dobbsie
andrew wrote:You mean the move that Damon Hill has since admitted was a desperate lunge on his part?
all he said was in hindsight he should have waited as Schumacher broke his suspension when he went off track.
Still doesn't change the fact Schu deliberately turned in on Hill which he repeated again with Jaques in 97 and got DSQ for the season for it.
I was at the race in 94 with my dad, had seats on pit straight. I still remember a lot of people booing him after Hill parked it. That day paved the way for my dislike of him, he proved he was not a sporting person.
But when Senna did it to Prost with no room for debate it was wonderful. Doesn't matter if you were there or not. The on-car footage from Hill clearly shows Schumahcer going off and retaking the correct line so Hill must (and did) know that Schumacher was going to take the correct line. It's all good though, the correct driver won the championship.
If you think Schumacher didnt deliberately hit Hill then either A. You know nothing about racing. B. you're a biased Schumacher fan.
andrew wrote:You mean the move that Damon Hill has since admitted was a desperate lunge on his part?
all he said was in hindsight he should have waited as Schumacher broke his suspension when he went off track.
Still doesn't change the fact Schu deliberately turned in on Hill which he repeated again with Jaques in 97 and got DSQ for the season for it.
I was at the race in 94 with my dad, had seats on pit straight. I still remember a lot of people booing him after Hill parked it. That day paved the way for my dislike of him, he proved he was not a sporting person.
But when Senna did it to Prost with no room for debate it was wonderful. Doesn't matter if you were there or not. The on-car footage from Hill clearly shows Schumahcer going off and retaking the correct line so Hill must (and did) know that Schumacher was going to take the correct line. It's all good though, the correct driver won the championship.
If you think Schumacher didnt deliberately hit Hill then either A. You know nothing about racing. B. you're a biased Schumacher fan.
Or option C. I'm not a biased Hill fan.
You're not going to change my mind on this so no point in trying.
bud wrote:And I'm a Hill fan? My allegiance didn't lie with Hill nor Schumacher. My common sense saw who was in the wrong
To be honest, I agree with bud here. I feel Schumacher's move was deliberate, and Jerez 1997 confirmed this. Monaco 2006 stamped, sealed and delivered it.
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bud wrote:And I'm a Hill fan? My allegiance didn't lie with Hill nor Schumacher. My common sense saw who was in the wrong
To be honest, I agree with bud here. I feel Schumacher's move was deliberate, and Jerez 1997 confirmed this. Monaco 2006 stamped, sealed and delivered it.
You maybe have a point with Jerez 97 but you don't with Monaco 06. Watch the on-board footage - it's blatently obvious that he went into the corner too fast. The wheel being turned as normal is the big give-away.
bud wrote:And I'm a Hill fan? My allegiance didn't lie with Hill nor Schumacher. My common sense saw who was in the wrong
To be honest, I agree with bud here. I feel Schumacher's move was deliberate, and Jerez 1997 confirmed this. Monaco 2006 stamped, sealed and delivered it.
You maybe have a point with Jerez 97 but you don't with Monaco 06. Watch the on-board footage - it's blatently obvious that he went into the corner too fast. The wheel being turned as normal is the big give-away.
only schumacher fan's cry foul over Monaco 06. he is a proven cheater.
bud wrote:And I'm a Hill fan? My allegiance didn't lie with Hill nor Schumacher. My common sense saw who was in the wrong
To be honest, I agree with bud here. I feel Schumacher's move was deliberate, and Jerez 1997 confirmed this. Monaco 2006 stamped, sealed and delivered it.
You maybe have a point with Jerez 97 but you don't with Monaco 06. Watch the on-board footage - it's blatently obvious that he went into the corner too fast. The wheel being turned as normal is the big give-away.
only schumacher fan's cry foul over Monaco 06. he is a proven cheater.
I'm not the one crying foul. I've not accused him of anything.
all he said was in hindsight he should have waited as Schumacher broke his suspension when he went off track. 
