Going undercover

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acosmichippo
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Re: Going undercover

Postby acosmichippo »

But there's still the visibility and driver comfort issues to consider. With a canopy, drivers can't use those peel-away visors to clear away debris, so there would have to be some other method for cleaning the canopy. At Le Mans, the pit crew just wipes it down, which takes like ~15 seconds or so. Too long for F1. A canopy would also make driving in places like Malaysia awfully hot... Probably dangerously hot, I'd imagine.
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madbrad
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Re: Going undercover

Postby madbrad »

With closed cockpits it is not F1.
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LewEngBridewell
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Re: Going undercover

Postby LewEngBridewell »

Death of Dan Wheldon prompts return of discussion about closed-cockpits in F1.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/oc ... sfeed=true
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SennaVille
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Re: Going undercover

Postby SennaVille »

madbrad wrote:With closed cockpits it is not F1.


It's an evolving sport.

"Without a manual gearbox, it's not F1" etc, etc, etc...........
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Re: Going undercover

Postby darwin dali »

F1 with windshield wipers? Dunno, dunno...
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acosmichippo
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Re: Going undercover

Postby acosmichippo »

my biggest problem with the canopies is what does a driver do if the car is flipped, and has a fire going like Nick Heidfeld's earlier this year? Without the canopy, he stands a chance of squeezing out somehow. But would explosive cord be enough to blow it off the chassis AND flip the car over? I doubt it. I'm sure they'd look into situations like this if they haven't already. Not to mention the visibility and environmental comfort/safetey concerns as well.
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madbrad
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Re: Going undercover

Postby madbrad »

SennaVille wrote:
madbrad wrote:With closed cockpits it is not F1.


It's an evolving sport.

"Without a manual gearbox, it's not F1" etc, etc, etc...........

Whatever you say.
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Re: Going undercover

Postby scotty »

madbrad wrote:
SennaVille wrote:
madbrad wrote:With closed cockpits it is not F1.


It's an evolving sport.

"Without a manual gearbox, it's not F1" etc, etc, etc...........

Whatever you say.


Yeah. F1 with closed cockpits is essentially LMP1.
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acosmichippo
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Re: Going undercover

Postby acosmichippo »

...with a bunch of added regulations.
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Re: Going undercover

Postby racechick »

bud wrote:
f1.com wrote: Any debate on implementation of cockpit canopies would have to take account of a number of known negatives, such as visibility, optical quality, ventilation, cleaning, access and emergency egress.


Cleaning?? So is it true then? Do racing drivers really mess their pants?
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Re: Going undercover

Postby andrew »

racechick wrote:
bud wrote:
f1.com wrote: Any debate on implementation of cockpit canopies would have to take account of a number of known negatives, such as visibility, optical quality, ventilation, cleaning, access and emergency egress.


Cleaning?? So is it true then? Do racing drivers really mess their pants?


Of course they do. Given the G-forces and the length of the races it would be impossible not to.
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Re: Going undercover

Postby bud »

racechick wrote:
bud wrote:
f1.com wrote: Any debate on implementation of cockpit canopies would have to take account of a number of known negatives, such as visibility, optical quality, ventilation, cleaning, access and emergency egress.


Cleaning?? So is it true then? Do racing drivers really mess their pants?


cleaning the canopy silly, from all the oil and debris build up.
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bigpat
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Re: Going undercover

Postby bigpat »

I've had a good hard think about this, as a lot of points of view have been put forward......

F1 must be allowed to evolve in an engineering sense, but I don't think cockpits are part of the evolution. If they were allowed to use canopies, they would have done years ago for aerodynamic purposes. Same with having open wheels, or else we'd be watching a sprint version of LMP sportcars...... Part of the appeal of open cockpit cars is that you can see the drivers work the steering wheel!

I don't believe a canopy would necessarily prevent what happened to Dan Wheldon. Once the roll hoop is crushed or torn from the car, you're head is essentially exposed. If like he, or Greg Moore, travel roll hoop first into an object at those speeds, you tragically have no hope......

If we transpose a canopy onto a contemporary open wheeler, enough force to tear a roll hoop out, would no doubt breach a canopy, or rip its anchors out. Then you have another large, and heavy missile to deal with. Although we have an obligation to make the cars safer, you cannot guard against every eventuality.

A canopy must be 100% guaranteed to open if a driver needs to be extracted, even after chassis damage. This would mean hinges or latches that can be readily undone, which would mean they would also likely fail in a really violent impact also. Of course you could design explosive bolts that the marshals could activate if need be. I'm not against the suggestion of canopies, but there are numerous issues to be tackled first, and practicality has to be considered.

A suggestion was made of tethering the drivers helmet to the chassis. The HANS device is essentially the same thing, but with the bonus that no connection to the car doesn't hinder their quick exit from it.....

If they were introduced, driver comfort in a canopy if it were introduced is no big deal.
Heat can be dealt with an aircon system. Sportscar coupes run systems that draw as little as 8 hp from the engine, and only have to cool to 25 deg C or so, not hard in such a small space. The canopies would be tinted undoubtedly to reduce radiated heat from the sun.

For the matter of cleaning the canopies at pitstops, they could easily use the windscreen tear offs as used in Nascar, V8 Supercars etc. Rain isn't really an issue, as well as a simple wiper system, over 100 kph the airflow alone clears the screen of water. In fact I Rain-ex my windscreen, and also don't use wipers on the motorway when it rains, the water just streams off.

More high tech idea is to use high pressure air, or ultrasonics, as Gordon Murray originally wanted to use on the McLaren F1 road car....

In the event of a roll over and fire, the drivers helmets can be plumbed with a fresh air supply, like some did in the 80's, that and a large volume carbon dioxide extinguisher that fills the cockpit would suppress a fire long enough to allow fire crews time to arrive a right the car. These systems could be remote triggered by race control, or the fire crew. The technology isn't hard to implement.

Optics aren't really an issue. Fighter planes use compound curved cockpits where a lot bigger field of vision is required, with no issues. A driver really only has a field of vision 60 degrees either side of straight ahead, these things are well understood on sportscars.

Just my 2 cents worth......