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[andrew]

And being a 'nice down to earth chap is neither here nor there. You dont get into the legend league by being 'a nice down to earth chap.

Yes you do. Schuamcher seems a top bloke. As do such other greats as Jackie Stewart, Alain Prost and Niki Lauda to name a few. I saw some interviews with Jim Clark from the 60's and again he seemed a pleasent enough chap. Being an a-hole is not nesessary to get to the top.

Schumacher!!?? How long is your memory? Niki Lauda?? Some nice blokes, some the opposite. Its irrelevant.

Long enough to remember the very biased British press of the 90's and hearing about some halfwit shooting his TV when Schumacher won a race in 1995.

[mnmracer]

And being a 'nice down to earth chap is neither here nor there. You dont get into the legend league by being 'a nice down to earth chap.

Yes you do. Schuamcher seems a top bloke. As do such other greats as Jackie Stewart, Alain Prost and Niki Lauda to name a few. I saw some interviews with Jim Clark from the 60's and again he seemed a pleasent enough chap. Being an a-hole is not nesessary to get to the top.

Schumacher!!?? How long is your memory? Niki Lauda?? Some nice blokes, some the opposite. Its irrelevant.

Am not old enough to know Lauda (as a driver), but I think Schumacher was a nice bloke. Yes, he was a ruthless driver, but as soon as the engines were turned off, he was very friendly.

[stonemonkey]

And being a 'nice down to earth chap is neither here nor there. You dont get into the legend league by being 'a nice down to earth chap.

Yes you do. Schuamcher seems a top bloke. As do such other greats as Jackie Stewart, Alain Prost and Niki Lauda to name a few. I saw some interviews with Jim Clark from the 60's and again he seemed a pleasent enough chap. Being an a-hole is not nesessary to get to the top.

Schumacher!!?? How long is your memory? Niki Lauda?? Some nice blokes, some the opposite. Its irrelevant.

Am not old enough to know Lauda (as a driver), but I think Schumacher was a nice bloke. Yes, he was a ruthless driver, but as soon as the engines were turned off, he was very friendly.

Schumacher is first out of the taxi and last into the bar

And there was some story that Schumacher emptied a bucket of ice water over coulthard hitting him on the head with the bucket then not finding it quite so funny when Coulthard poured his pint over him.

[andrew]

And being a 'nice down to earth chap is neither here nor there. You dont get into the legend league by being 'a nice down to earth chap.

Yes you do. Schuamcher seems a top bloke. As do such other greats as Jackie Stewart, Alain Prost and Niki Lauda to name a few. I saw some interviews with Jim Clark from the 60's and again he seemed a pleasent enough chap. Being an a-hole is not nesessary to get to the top.

Schumacher!!?? How long is your memory? Niki Lauda?? Some nice blokes, some the opposite. Its irrelevant.

Am not old enough to know Lauda (as a driver), but I think Schumacher was a nice bloke. Yes, he was a ruthless driver, but as soon as the engines were turned off, he was very friendly.

Schumacher is first out of the taxi and last into the bar

And there was some story that Schumacher emptied a bucket of ice water over coulthard hitting him on the head with the bucket then not finding it quite so funny when Coulthard poured his pint over him.

Bit extreme by Coulthard, wasting good beer like that. The Bible teaches us an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Coulthard should have reciprocated with a bucket of ice water (aka a viking shower). Important life lesson, whenever someone throws a drink over you or pours it over your head keep your mouth open.

[darwin dali]

So if you include Vettel at this stage of his careeryou'd have to include Alonso and Hamilton...or not include all three.

That's the key word: at this stage. You do that for all 3 drivers on offer, you look at their accomplishments 3.5 years (or whatever it is with SV) into their career and compare. You'll get a quite decisive answer.

[racechick]

So if you include Vettel at this stage of his careeryou'd have to include Alonso and Hamilton...or not include all three.

That's the key word: at this stage. You do that for all 3 drivers on offer, you look at their accomplishments 3.5 years (or whatever it is with SV) into their career and compare. You'll get a quite decisive answer.

You cant just compare their first three years. If you did Lewis would score high, he beat Alonso and won a world championship. Alonso would score high, he won two. There all in different cars some good, some bad, some impossibly good. Its not at all decisive.

[andrew]

Why can't you compare their first 3 years? If you do you're comparing oranges with oranges and not apples.

[racechick]

Why can't you compare their first 3 years? If you do you're comparing oranges with oranges and not apples.

If you compare their first three years all three of them did pretty well. But they're all in different cars. Some dominant some not. Some apples and some oranges.

[darwin dali]

So if you include Vettel at this stage of his careeryou'd have to include Alonso and Hamilton...or not include all three.

That's the key word: at this stage. You do that for all 3 drivers on offer, you look at their accomplishments 3.5 years (or whatever it is with SV) into their career and compare. You'll get a quite decisive answer.

You cant just compare their first three years. If you did Lewis would score high, he beat Alonso and won a world championship. Alonso would score high, he won two. There all in different cars some good, some bad, some impossibly good. Its not at all decisive.

Oh, I disagree, we absolutely can compare the first years - that's the only period we can compare because all three have had their 3.5 years in F1. After 5 years of SV being in F1 we can do another comparison, after 7, after 10 (by then FA will be retired) and so on.
So, when you look at what these 3 gentlemen have achieved in their first 3 or 4 years, you get a pretty clear picture for that period in their careers. Down the road, i.e., further along their careers, that picture might change one way or the other, but for today, this is what we've got to go by.

[darwin dali]

Why can't you compare their first 3 years? If you do you're comparing oranges with oranges and not apples.

If you compare their first three years all three of them did pretty well. But they're all in different cars. Some dominant some not. Some apples and some oranges.

That is true, but it's also part of the comparison. If you're a shrewd (or lucky) driver who chooses this or that team, then that's part of the comparing as well. Just look at that unlucky bar steward Alesi - he was a great driver, but he won't be remembered for his on-track achievements much such as wins or championships because he was in the wrong car most of his career. Tough luck - he still gets compared with other drivers and ends up as second tier.

[Hammer278]

Hey DD did you post twice so you could be number 1000 in this thread?

[darwin dali]

Hey DD did you post twice so you could be number 1000 in this thread?

Lol - I never look at those numbers. Maybe I should?

[racechick]

Well looking at the first thre years of each of those three drivers...the jury is still out. They've all done things to make them great drivers,, which is legend material is down to preference. I take your point DD about the car. A driver who never gets in a good car will never be considered a great driver/legend. And the flip side of that is the driver who is always in a superior car will always have his greatness/legend status questioned.

[GRHinPorts]

Well looking at the first thre years of each of those three drivers...the jury is still out. They've all done things to make them great drivers,, which is legend material is down to preference. I take your point DD about the car. A driver who never gets in a good car will never be considered a great driver/legend. And the flip side of that is the driver who is always in a superior car will always have his greatness/legend status questioned.

This last point brings to my mind the idea that if he continues to win unchallenged by his team mate in a dominant Red Bull at some point Vettel will want to find a new challenge. Basically because people will always say is the car and not his driving that is the reason for his wins.

IMO he will either want to be team mate to either Lewis or Fernando OR he will want to go to a lesser team like Mercedes and take them to the top like Schumacher did with Ferrari.

[bud]

Well 2011 he has been unchallenged by his team mate, but in 2010 he was challenged all the way so 50/50 so far for Vettel.