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[FRAFPDD]

As much people hate to admit it,Scuderia Ferrari&McLaren have been/still are&will always be Formula One! The rest come and go,and without those two it would be Formula Zero!

I disagree, no one component is bigger than the sport, regardless of how many fans that component has. Formula 1 is Formula 1, no one team is bigger than the sport. Sure if Ferrari and/or McLaren left F1 there would be a slump but it'll recover with new names replacing the outgoing names, if McLaren and Ferrari are F1, let's have 13 Ferrari's and 13 McLarens on the grid. Personally I wouldn't tune in to watch as I like the smaller teams thrown into the mix, that's what makes F1! Small teams come and go, how many people remember (or even heard of) Minardi, Forti, Jordan, Spyker, and Stewart GP? All teams that have come and gone over the past 20 years. but imagine what F1 would have been like without those smaller teams. Smaller teams may not have the financial clout of the Ferrari's and McLaren's of this world but they are just as important!

if f1er happebbs to agree with this post then indont know why he had such a problem with mine, as this is exactly my take on it. f1 would not mourn the loss forever,new teams would replace them. f1s newbs make f1 as much as the big teams, the only thing those two have is history, hrt etc could be just as successful with say newey and super financial backing. remember mclaren once was a fledgling team in a f1 at aome point. thats not even my point, point is if ferrari and mclaren left f1 it wouldnt be too long before the loss is foegotten, and teams like renault mercedes even lotus return to the forefront.

[FRAFPDD]

F1er is really right. The last time the idea that the competition is more important than the teams with the fans was followed was by the Athenian League.

Sorry myown, it may be a bitter pill, but IMO, Ferrari and McLaren will grow with or without F1. Most F1 fans are Ferrari/Macca fans first and foremost. That is why LDM can raise the breakaway card as often as he does - because it is a reminder that the key players know and understand - F1 is nothing without those teams and those teams will be followed whatever competition they are in. There will also be no end of teams who want to race them, again no matter what competition they are in.

But, IMO, F1 will stay, just a fairer share of the pie will go FOTA's way and, hopefully, some of the stupid ideas being bandied about will be knocked on the head.

my only beef with a good post is the f1 fans are fer/mc fans first and foremost, is that i think its, fer/mc fans are f1 fans first. thats tje two opposing arguments in a nutshell, i think people would be unhappy with tje teams rather tjen nernie for breaking away.

[texasmr2]

my only beef with a good post is the f1 fans are fer/mc fans first and foremost, is that i think its, fer/mc fans are f1 fans first. thats tje two opposing arguments in a nutshell, i think people would be unhappy with tje teams rather tjen nernie for breaking away.

It took me a few rereads but I think I know what you mean. I can only speak for myself but I started following F1 because of the racing, tech etc etc and it just happened too be a bonus that Ferrari races in F1. So I am first and foremost a F1 fan and then a Ferrari fan but I like all the teams so if Ferrari gets beaten fair and square I don't mind. Its just racing and not life changing.

[vaptin]

Lets watch the world cup (without) Brazil,Italy,Germany,Argentina,England and Spain

Ahem, do you watch international football? That'd probably be an improvement on things.

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Anyway, the crucial point is comparing f1 without Ferrari and McLaren to a breakaway series containing Ferrari and McLaren (with rules, tracks, cars, teams etc), which would win?

[F1er]

Lets watch the world cup (without) Brazil,Italy,Germany,Argentina,England and Spain

Ahem, do you watch international football?

BIG TIME

[myownalias]

Everyone is talking like they know what the current crop of "F1" fans will do if Ferrari and/or McLaren leave F1; because the two biggest supported teams in F1 leave; doesn't mean that everyone of those McLaren/Ferrari fans will ditch F1; will sponsors be so willing to jump ship with the two F1 stalwarts? As for the suggestion that other teams will follow Ferrari/McLaren is unknown as the majority of the teams seem to be happy with FOM/FIA's future direction hence why LDM & Ferrari got outvoted! Will the smaller teams like Williams, Sauber etc get a better deal financially if they did jump ship with Ferrari & McLaren, assuming that McLaren do actually jump ship!

Nobody knows what the outcome of a breakaway series would be, we are all merely speculating!

[F1er]

I for one would certainly follow Ferrari/Macca,and maybe catch a race of Formula2 as it would be without the sports BEST!

And I'm positive that if a new series developed the likes of Honda,Toyota,BMW might choose to come back !

[myownalias]

I for one would certainly follow Ferrari/Macca,and maybe catch a race of Formula2 as it would be without the sports BEST!

It'll still be Formula 1; there's already a Formula 2!

And I'm positive that if a new series developed the likes of Honda,Toyota,BMW might choose to come back !

I don't see Honda, Toyota or BMW coming back no matter whether it's a breakaway for FIA championship, maybe as an engine supplier but not a manufacturer team!

[Robert12010]

I for one would certainly follow Ferrari/Macca,and maybe catch a race of Formula2 as it would be without the sports BEST!

It'll still be Formula 1; there's already a Formula 2!

And I'm positive that if a new series developed the likes of Honda,Toyota,BMW might choose to come back !

I don't see Honda, Toyota or BMW coming back no matter whether it's a breakaway for FIA championship, maybe as an engine supplier but not a manufacturer team!

mario thiessen has already said that bmw wont come back to formula1, even with the new regualations, i doubt that toyota will come back and honda well who knows they cant make their minds up their in, out, in out its laughable really!

[vaptin]

Lets watch the world cup (without) Brazil,Italy,Germany,Argentina,England and Spain

Ahem, do you watch international football?

BIG TIME

England don't add much to the world cup though do they? I don't think they aren't in the top six on pure merit. Anyway, dd is just going to tell me off for talking about football.

Everyone is talking like they know what the current crop of "F1" fans will do if Ferrari and/or McLaren leave F1; because the two biggest supported teams in F1 leave; doesn't mean that everyone of those McLaren/Ferrari fans will ditch F1; will sponsors be so willing to jump ship with the two F1 stalwarts? As for the suggestion that other teams will follow Ferrari/McLaren is unknown as the majority of the teams seem to be happy with FOM/FIA's future direction hence why LDM & Ferrari got outvoted! Will the smaller teams like Williams, Sauber etc get a better deal financially if they did jump ship with Ferrari & McLaren, assuming that McLaren do actually jump ship!

Nobody knows what the outcome of a breakaway series would be, we are all merely speculating!

Williams and Sauber might, teams like them who are pretty decent but are still struggling for money is where the issue lies for me in terms of the wealth distribution of f1. If the money stops being skimmed of by Bernie (well a reasonable reduction) they'll be the biggest benefiters as they have the capabilities to work to pick up points, and hence will be more performance cash dependent rather than sponsor dependent. Ferrari and Mclaren do fine for money.

[darwin dali]

England don't add much to the world cup though do they? I don't think they aren't in the top six on pure merit. Anyway, dd is just going to tell me off for talking about football.

Here are the currently highest ranked teams and their scores according to FIFA.com. Egypt on no. 9?

1 Spain 1887
2 Netherlands 1723
3 Germany 1485
4 Brazil 1446
5 Argentina 1338
6 England 1195
7 Uruguay 1152
8 Portugal 1090
9 Egypt 1078
10 Croatia 1075

[F1er]

England has some great and exciting players,EPL is the top league,so yea England would be greatly missed

Arsenal-Chelsea in 15 mns

[vaptin]

I know the fifa rankings, I don't think anybody goes by them. the England football team is pretty decent, but they aren't really that good. Some serious performance issues,

Also, Arsenal are winning

[JackMaster]

I believe this is the beginning of a diplomatic negotiation for arriving to a new agreement in 2013. The teams will defend their common interest in improving his control on the F1 and in getting more money from the right owners. I think this is something that all of them want. In my opinion they have won a first battle in terms of control, by changing Mosley for Todt.
It’s interesting that Montezemolo has targeted the CVC investors instead of Bernie Ecclestone, they only have the F1 name and without Bernie and the teams they couldn’t do anything to keep a parallel Championship, risking losing everything. This way, Montezemolo is giving arguments to Bernie for getting more concessions from them.
If F1 continues globally growing and the benefits improve, something in what everyone involved in F1 is concerned, everything will be easy because investors aren’t interested in controlling the development of F1, all what they want is a good profitability for their investments.
We have to wait and see which is Bernie’s position and how he reacts to the team’s movements, but there is still a long way to go.

[FRAFPDD]

why are we not just waiting till ernest dies.