FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[McLaren Fan]

McLaren's situation is, to say the least, concerning. Whilst you can never count McLaren out because of their resources (which is why I'm confused the team are even in this mess), the problems look as though they could take a while to sort out. Here's a picture which shows the new floor:


http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hi ... po_140.jpg

[Gaz]

If they want to reduce drag why not thin down the center section of the rear wing

[Jensonb]

There has to be more to this, it's just too simplistic to suggest McLaren have a design flaw they're having trouble sorting. They've got too much talent and too much experience on the team for that.

[Denthúl]

If they want to reduce drag why not thin down the center section of the rear wing

If you look at the angle of that piece, you can see that it's very aggressive and steep, which would also contribute to drag. It's possible that the whole rear wing's concept is flawed, though I'd hope that it was more simple than that.

There has to be more to this, it's just too simplistic to suggest McLaren have a design flaw they're having trouble sorting. They've got too much talent and too much experience on the team for that.

See Ferrari and the F2005 for an example of how even the big, talented teams can get things wrong. :/

[scotty]

I wonder if McLaren's rear wing problems stem from that cutout section they have - no other cars seem to have that.

http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires/2009/tests62/diapo_140.jpg

There's some pretty good pictures in that directory, you can see just how complex the BGP front wing is here:- http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hi ... po_112.jpg

[Jensonb]

McLaren's situation is, to say the least, concerning. Whilst you can never count McLaren out because of their resources (which is why I'm confused the team are even in this mess), the problems look as though they could take a while to sort out. Here's a picture which shows the new floor:


http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hi ... po_140.jpg

Focusing on the sidepods...Compare to the BGP001:

The Brawn car and the McLaren both have relatively small sidepod airboxes. But notice that the BGP001 is far more sculpted beneath and behind the opening, whereas the Macca seems to be bulkier and less elegant. Obviously, this is likely to do with the KERS, so it would be interesting to note if accommodating for the system has harmed the McLaren's aerodynamics - perhaps necessitating the cutout from the floor?

[McLaren Fan]

If they want to reduce drag why not thin down the center section of the rear wing

Unfortunately, there is more to this than just drag. The back end of the car is very unstable and the rear tyres are being smoked. Only McLaren will know the exact problem, but it's definitely rear wing and/or diffuser related.

Also, I forgot to say earlier, the team have been putting some more cooling vents on the car as well, on top of the large ones on the sidepods already. I presume that's got something to with KERS.

[Denthúl]

If they want to reduce drag why not thin down the center section of the rear wing

Unfortunately, there is more to this than just drag. The back end of the car is very unstable and the rear tyres are being smoked. Only McLaren will know the exact problem, but it's definitely rear wing and/or diffuser related.

Also, I forgot to say earlier, the team have been putting some more cooling vents on the car as well, on top of the large ones on the sidepods already. I presume that's got something to with KERS.

That isn't going to be good for Heikki, who is already fairly hard on his rear tyres. :/

[scotty]

The Brawn car and the McLaren both have relatively small sidepod airboxes. But notice that the BGP001 is far more sculpted beneath and behind the opening, whereas the Macca seems to be bulkier and less elegant. Obviously, this is likely to do with the KERS, so it would be interesting to note if accommodating for the system has harmed the McLaren's aerodynamics - perhaps necessitating the cutout from the floor?

I think the floor modification is just a potential area where aero advantage can be gained, and McLaren are looking to exploit it, as any team would. It seems to me that the rear end aero problem is caused by the wing itself; hence the earlier testing running with an '08 wing. I don't know exactly why the sidepods would be bigger on the McLaren (it could very easily be due to KERS) but i'd dare say that it may not be an issue, their effects would be mostly determined by how the airflow off the front of the car has been organised. Just looking at those sidepods made me think - we'll probably see all the teams using these smaller air inlets (pioneered by McLaren last year at some circuits) as less engine cooling will be needed due to the lower rev limit.

[Frosty]

The amount of work and updates they have done to the car is crazy they have redesigned the undertray, engine cover, added vents to the sidepods, extensive front wing modifications and have produced several different rear wings! With the amount of work that has been done you would think they would have fixed their problems!

[McLaren Fan]

I think the floor modification is just a potential area where aero advantage can be gained, and McLaren are looking to exploit it, as any team would. It seems to me that the rear end aero problem is caused by the wing itself; hence the earlier testing running with an '08 wing.

Not necessarily. The 2008 wing could, for instance, be used to try to counter some of the downforce the car may be losing because of the diffuser etc.

[Frosty]

I think the floor modification is just a potential area where aero advantage can be gained, and McLaren are looking to exploit it, as any team would. It seems to me that the rear end aero problem is caused by the wing itself;

I think you are right from what I have heard the car lacks rear down force and that the current 09 rear wings have been staling which suggests they haven’t been getting enough down force from the original 09 rear wing producing instability in the car balance. To remedy this they may have tried to increase the angle of the wing to the point where the airflow over the wing isn't fast enough and it stalls causing a lack of down force and creating instability. That would explain why they are sometimes using a 08 wing which can have a smaller angle but produce the same sort of down force as the 09 wing should do enabling them to carry out testing on other parts of the car while they fix the rear wing. This is only what I think might of be going on. That might be why they are also trying to gain down force from the diffuser so they can use a rear wing with a reduced angle that doesn’t stall while having enough rear down force for the car to remain stable.

[McLaren Fan]

I think the floor modification is just a potential area where aero advantage can be gained, and McLaren are looking to exploit it, as any team would. It seems to me that the rear end aero problem is caused by the wing itself;

I think you are right from what I have heard the car lacks rear down force and that the current 09 rear wings have been staling which suggests they haven’t been getting enough down force from the original rear wing producing instability in the car balance. To remedy this they may have tried to increase the angle of the wing to the point where the airflow over the wing isn't fast enough and it stalls causing a lack of down force and creating instability. That would explain why they are sometimes using a 08 wing which can have a smaller angle but produce the same sort of down force as the 09 wing should do enabling them to carry out testing on other parts of the car while they fix the rear wing. This is only what I think might of be going on. That might be why they are also trying to gain down force from the diffuser so they can use a rear wing with a reduced angle that doesn’t stall while having enough rear down force for the car to remain stable.

Good analysis.

[scotty]

I think the floor modification is just a potential area where aero advantage can be gained, and McLaren are looking to exploit it, as any team would. It seems to me that the rear end aero problem is caused by the wing itself; hence the earlier testing running with an '08 wing.

Not necessarily. The 2008 wing could, for instance, to try to counter some of the downforce the car may be losing because of the diffuser etc.

I see what you mean, however, to me it seems more than coincidental that they have suddenly appeared to drop about 2 seconds now they have started to use this year's wing... if it was the diffuser or something then surely all this time wouldn't have been lost, as the new wing would only have been fitted once the other problems had been solved?

I think the floor modification is just a potential area where aero advantage can be gained, and McLaren are looking to exploit it, as any team would. It seems to me that the rear end aero problem is caused by the wing itself;

I think you are right from what I have heard the car lacks rear down force and that the current 09 rear wings have been staling which suggests they haven’t been getting enough down force from the original 09 rear wing producing instability in the car balance. To remedy this they may have tried to increase the angle of the wing to the point where the airflow over the wing isn't fast enough and it stalls causing a lack of down force and creating instability. That would explain why they are sometimes using a 08 wing which can have a smaller angle but produce the same sort of down force as the 09 wing should do enabling them to carry out testing on other parts of the car while they fix the rear wing. This is only what I think might of be going on. That might be why they are also trying to gain down force from the diffuser so they can use a rear wing with a reduced angle that doesn’t stall while having enough rear down force for the car to remain stable.

Basically, this. I think McLaren also said in Jerez that they were using an old wing because they couldn't develop enough downforce for that track with the new one.

[darwin dali]

Bottom line seems to be: McLaren are not quite ready for prime time. Unless they get things sorted within the next few, this might open up a challenging season with 'outsiders' getting a realistic chance of winning races or making it to the podium.