FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Gert]

I'm not surprised the teams have put up with it for so long.

Read what Paul Stoddart has been saying for some time now & you will realise that not all team owners do.

If it's passion for the sport you want, Stoddie's the man.

It's more than a little tiresome to read how people seem to think that Frank Williams (of all people) currently represents the honest face of F1 these days. "In it for the sport blah blah blah"

Frank was known throughout the paddock in the 70's as "Wänker Williams" - process that...

Then please re-read my 2nd line.

[7UpJordan]

Frank was known throughout the paddock in the 70's as "Wänker Williams" - process that...

Then please re-read my 2nd line.

People can change in 30 years, but yes Frank has been a "w***er" on a few occasions, especially when he sacked Hill and Mansell and allowing Prost to use his Senna veto.

It's only really in the past couple of years he has become one of the most honest people in the pit lane especially when he admitted fault for sacking Hill and the way he and the team handled the BMW era.

[EwanM]

Frank was known throughout the paddock in the 70's as "Wänker Williams" - process that...

Then please re-read my 2nd line.

People can change in 30 years, but yes Frank has been a "w***er" on a few occasions, especially when he sacked Hill and Mansell and allowing Prost to use his Senna veto.

It's only really in the past couple of years he has become one of the most honest people in the pit lane especially when he admitted fault for sacking Hill and the way he and the team handled the BMW era.

Have to be ruthless to be successful.
Renault loved Prost, and put alot of pressure on Williams to sign him at all costs. Whether or not that meant Mansell and Senna were veto'd from the deal. It worked, without it Prost wouldn't have been champion for a fourth time, and more importantly Hill maybe would never have been a world champion.

[7UpJordan]

Frank was known throughout the paddock in the 70's as "Wänker Williams" - process that...

Then please re-read my 2nd line.

People can change in 30 years, but yes Frank has been a "w***er" on a few occasions, especially when he sacked Hill and Mansell and allowing Prost to use his Senna veto.

It's only really in the past couple of years he has become one of the most honest people in the pit lane especially when he admitted fault for sacking Hill and the way he and the team handled the BMW era.

Have to be ruthless to be successful.
Renault loved Prost, and put alot of pressure on Williams to sign him at all costs. Whether or not that meant Mansell and Senna were veto'd from the deal. It worked, without it Prost wouldn't have been champion for a fourth time, and more importantly Hill maybe would never have been a world champion.

I've always wondered how Renault got back on Prost's side after they sacked him from their works team back in 1983 when he narrowly lost the title to Piquet and Renault blamed Prost for losing it. Then again Prost whilst being known as "The Professor" also had a habit of causing in-team politics from his final year with McLaren to his sacking from Ferrari before the last race in 1991, so maybe that was involved too.

[EwanM]

Frank was known throughout the paddock in the 70's as "Wänker Williams" - process that...

Then please re-read my 2nd line.

People can change in 30 years, but yes Frank has been a "w***er" on a few occasions, especially when he sacked Hill and Mansell and allowing Prost to use his Senna veto.

It's only really in the past couple of years he has become one of the most honest people in the pit lane especially when he admitted fault for sacking Hill and the way he and the team handled the BMW era.

Have to be ruthless to be successful.
Renault loved Prost, and put alot of pressure on Williams to sign him at all costs. Whether or not that meant Mansell and Senna were veto'd from the deal. It worked, without it Prost wouldn't have been champion for a fourth time, and more importantly Hill maybe would never have been a world champion.

I've always wondered how Renault got back on Prost's side after they sacked him from their works team back in 1983 when he narrowly lost the title to Piquet and Renault blamed Prost for losing it. Then again Prost whilst being known as "The Professor" also had a habit of causing in-team politics from his final year with McLaren to his sacking from Ferrari before the last race in 1991, so maybe that was involved too.

That is true. French Driver in a french powered car - almost too tempting?

[7UpJordan]

Frank was known throughout the paddock in the 70's as "Wänker Williams" - process that...

Then please re-read my 2nd line.

People can change in 30 years, but yes Frank has been a "w***er" on a few occasions, especially when he sacked Hill and Mansell and allowing Prost to use his Senna veto.

It's only really in the past couple of years he has become one of the most honest people in the pit lane especially when he admitted fault for sacking Hill and the way he and the team handled the BMW era.

Have to be ruthless to be successful.
Renault loved Prost, and put alot of pressure on Williams to sign him at all costs. Whether or not that meant Mansell and Senna were veto'd from the deal. It worked, without it Prost wouldn't have been champion for a fourth time, and more importantly Hill maybe would never have been a world champion.

I've always wondered how Renault got back on Prost's side after they sacked him from their works team back in 1983 when he narrowly lost the title to Piquet and Renault blamed Prost for losing it. Then again Prost whilst being known as "The Professor" also had a habit of causing in-team politics from his final year with McLaren to his sacking from Ferrari before the last race in 1991, so maybe that was involved too.

That is true. French Driver in a french powered car - almost too tempting?

Not tempting enough for Flavio, he likes his drivers to be fresh faced youngsters who aren't 27 or over so he can play with them in his dingy on his private beaches.

[McLaren Fan]

That is true. French Driver in a french powered car - almost too tempting?

We all know what French nationalism is like.

[texasmr2]

That is true. French Driver in a french powered car - almost too tempting?

We all know what French nationalism is like.

Carefull mate the PC police are on the prowl!

[Gert]

To be fair to Frank I have worked with BMW & there are some monumental tossers in their employ.

An example:-

I was with some BMW engineers in Regensburg (at that time the home of the 3 series) & they pointed out that, in their opinion, the best engineers in Bavaria made BMWs but the best Oxfordshire could produce made Rovers.

I bit my tongue & waited until lunch.

Lunch is significant here 'cos it was the summer that BMW had won Le Mans 24 & the winning car was doing an internal marketing tour of BMW's manufacturing sites.

So we got up close to the car & the proud engineers pointed to the badge on the front & said "See, that's what Bavarians can do".

I took the opportunity to get closer to the car, as you would & asked why was the car was RHD?

While I was waiting for that answer I asked if they could read the manufacturer's plate that was fixed next to the driver's elbow in the cockpit, pretending I couldn't quite make it out.

It read, as you are all no doubt aware - Williams GP Engineering, Oxfordshire.

They were a tad quiet after that.

[7UpJordan]

To be fair to Frank I have worked with BMW & there are some monumental tossers in their employ.

An example:-

I was with some BMW engineers in Regensburg (at that time the home of the 3 series) & they pointed out that, in their opinion, the best engineers in Bavaria made BMWs but the best Oxfordshire could produce made Rovers.

I bit my tongue & waited until lunch.

Lunch is significant here 'cos it was the summer that BMW had won Le Mans 24 & the winning car was doing an internal marketing tour of BMW's manufacturing sites.

So we got up close to the car & the proud engineers pointed to the badge on the front & said "See, that's what Bavarians can do".

I took the opportunity to get closer to the car, as you would & asked why was the car was RHD?

While I was waiting for that answer I asked if they could read the manufacturer's plate that was fixed next to the driver's elbow in the cockpit, pretending I couldn't quite make it out.

It read, as you are all no doubt aware - Williams GP Engineering, Oxfordshire.

They were a tad quiet after that.

That will be the Le Mans car that Williams built for BMW as one of the first parts of the BMW deal.

[darwin dali]

From autosport.com:

FOTA: Ferrari's special deal not a problem

By Pablo Elizalde Tuesday, December 23rd 2008, 10:23 GMT

FOTA vice-chairman and Toyota team president John Howett says Ferrari's special financial arrangement will not be a point of dispute between the teams, as he suggests Bernie Ecclestone was trying to split the body by going public with details of the deal.

Ecclestone hit out at Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo after the Italian said he wanted teams to get a bigger share of F1 revenues.

The F1 boss spoke openly about the Italian's squad more favourable financial deal compared to their rivals.

"Ferrari get so much more money than everyone else. They know exactly what they get; they are not that stupid, although they are not that bright, either," said Ecclestone.

"They get about $80 million (£54 million) more. When they win the constructors' championship, which they did this year, they got $80 million more than if McLaren had won it."

Howett said, however, that Ferrari's preferential situation was well known by all members of the Formula One Teams' Association, and said Ecclestone's attack was a non-event.

"He may be trying to [split FOTA] but all the information that was given is very transparent and openly shared among the members of FOTA, so it was a bit of a non-event because everybody is aware of the historic status [of Ferrari]," Howett told The Times.

Howett added that FOTA still wanted to discuss the sharing of the F1 income with Ecclestone.

"I think the majority position in FOTA is that people feel that the revenue for a modern professional sport is normally distributed more in favour of the participants than the property holder or the commercial rights-holder," he added.

"People want to open that discussion and achieve a much more consistent balance with the status in many other professional sports."

FIA president Max Mosley conceded that teams are now more united than ever before as they work towards reducing costs in order to survive the financial crisis.

"I think the teams are more united now because there are outside pressures on Formula One," he told the official Formula One website. The real tests of unity will come when there is a significant difference of opinion or when vital interests are threatened."

It's good that Ecclestone's confirmation of what we all suspected won't derail FOTA, but it still doesn't make Ferrari look any less shameful and hypocritical. For the teams' own good, they will gave to suppress their gag reflexes.

As I said before and this just confirms it again: the Ferrari special deal is OLD NEWS, a non-event!
To get all huffy and puffy about it is disingenuous at best and only shows one's agenda of Ferrari bashing.

[McLaren Fan]

No, I'm afraid you are wrong. As tifosi it's unsurprising you should be saying what you are, but the rest of the Formula One community find Ferrari's double standards abhorrent.

[bud]

As I said before and this just confirms it again: the Ferrari special deal is OLD NEWS, a non-event!
To get all huffy and puffy about it is disingenuous at best and only shows one's agenda of Ferrari bashing.

DD the non Ferrari fan yet again jumps to the defense of the team

just because its old news does not mean the fans should just shut up and accept it. Ive known of this as you say it is old news but i have always thought it is BS and now Bernie has just brought it back into the lime light...... and guess what i still think its BS!

when this type of deal exists ontop of everything else that goes Ferrari's way, its no wonder there are many out there who feel the FIA FOM and GOD favour Ferrari

[Gert]

Just what exactly is wrong with bashing FerrarI?

It's not like they are a team who have always been in the forefront of technical prowess is it? - Witness Enzo's belated acceptance of rear engined cars, for example.

Or that they have always put their drivers 1st - the names Lauda & Surtees spring to mind here, to name but 2.

In short, Ferrari deserve all the bashing they get & to think otherwise is simply demonstrating a total inability to grasp the realities of the sport.

[darwin dali]

Unsurprising coming from the two of you, knowing full well about this deal and yet using it to bash Ferrari again (as always).
A bit surprising though to hear those comments like shameful and hypocritical and double standards from a supporter of a team that cheated and brought the entire sport in disrepute