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[Hammer278]

If Charlie Whiting would have said not Mercedes would have not gone through with the test using the 2013 car. How is that cheating?

Bottom line, Mercedes were found guilty of breaching article 22.4, by their own admission, but under extenuating circumstances. Are they guilty, YES, Mercedes knew the rules, are the FIA guilty, YES, Charlie Whiting should not have given the go-ahead before knowing all the facts! Everyone is guilty, punishment has been dealt, end of story!

Okay, they were guilty of being ignorant, but we were arguing about them CHEATING. Ignorance does not equal CHEATING.

If they were ignorant they wouldn't have asked for the exception in the first place. They relied on Charlie's approval knowing they needed it since it was against the regulations. The Tribunal said that Charlie wasn't the right guy for that approval hence Mercedes' actions being deemed in good faith. No one cheats in good faith.

All done.

I don't believe they were ignorant at all, I was going by what moa was saying. His argument made it sound like they were ignorant. I just think of it as a kid asking his distracted mother if he can go and sniff some coke and she was like 'yeah yeah go ahead but come back by dinner' and the kid went ahead.

MOA, I'm not saying Merc aren't guilty...they paid a price for that test. But they. were. not. CHEATING.

[What's Burning?]

If Charlie Whiting would have said not Mercedes would have not gone through with the test using the 2013 car. How is that cheating?

Bottom line, Mercedes were found guilty of breaching article 22.4, by their own admission, but under extenuating circumstances. Are they guilty, YES, Mercedes knew the rules, are the FIA guilty, YES, Charlie Whiting should not have given the go-ahead before knowing all the facts! Everyone is guilty, punishment has been dealt, end of story!

Okay, they were guilty of being ignorant, but we were arguing about them CHEATING. Ignorance does not equal CHEATING.

There is also a saying in a court of law, "ignorance is no excuse", if you don't see a change of speed limit sign, from 70mph to 60mph and you are pulled over for speeding, are you not guilty?

Not a valid argument here. Since you're completely ignoring the fact that an official said it was okay.

[myownalias]

Not a valid argument here. Since you're completely ignoring the fact that an official said it was okay.

We'll have to agree to disagree; I don't believe at this level of motorsport, teams don't know the correct procedure in any given situation. Yes Charlie Whiting should have directed Mercedes to the correct person instead of giving any answer; which is why Mercedes got away so lightly, it comes down to a comedy of errors, which I believe Mercedes took advantage of, it's my opinion!

[CookinFlat6]

Not a valid argument here. Since you're completely ignoring the fact that an official said it was okay.

We'll have to agree to disagree; I don't believe at this level of motorsport, teams don't know the correct procedure in any given situation. Yes Charlie Whiting should have directed Mercedes to the correct person instead of giving any answer; which is why Mercedes got away so lightly, it comes down to a comedy of errors, which I believe Mercedes took advantage of, it's my opinion!

Ah, but I think Charlie did do this, he referred it to the FIA's lawyer who was nice enough to write back saying, after due dilligence of sorts, from his (FIAs) pov, there was no problem with using the 2013 car if Pirelli ran the test. Which they did

Big difference between Charlie and proof of confirmation from the FIA's legal counsel

I mean if the FIA's legal guy( who must have helped draft the regs, and if not must have studied them as a prerequisite for geting the job) is not deemed to be an authority who is?

[What's Burning?]

The FiA's legal council also said okay? How's that possible? Mercedes is CHEATING!

[CookinFlat6]

Cheating is intentionally breaking the rules. The tribunal categorically found Merc not guilty of setting out to break the rules, everything else after that was about the advantage inadvertently gained

I cant believe people are mentioning the term 'cheating' , lets hope they dont win the lottery because they could become a dream ticket for a litigious Merc Lawyer. Even AN is not even hinting that, just that the advantage gained has changed the nature of the competition and they want compensation, by heavyier snaction on Merc or they do something themselves

Its like manslaughter, big difference to murder, yet the victims family demand compensation and the courts punish the perp for making a sloppy mistake leading to a death

[CookinFlat6]

The FiA's legal council also said okay? How's that possible? Mercedes is CHEATING!

From James Allen

Mercedes asked the FIA’s Charlie Whiting via telephone in on May 2 if they could use a 2013 car for a Pirelli test and he consulted with FIA in house lawyer Sebastian Bernard, who said that it was possible provided that Pirelli invited all the other teams to test and to show that it had done so.

[vaptin]

The FiA's legal council also said okay? How's that possible? Mercedes is CHEATING!

From James Allen

Mercedes asked the FIA’s Charlie Whiting via telephone in on May 2 if they could use a 2013 car for a Pirelli test and he consulted with FIA in house lawyer Sebastian Bernard, who said that it was possible provided that Pirelli invited all the other teams to test and to show that it had done so.

Again? The second condition wasn't adhered too.

[CookinFlat6]

The FiA's legal council also said okay? How's that possible? Mercedes is CHEATING!

From James Allen

Mercedes asked the FIA’s Charlie Whiting via telephone in on May 2 if they could use a 2013 car for a Pirelli test and he consulted with FIA in house lawyer Sebastian Bernard, who said that it was possible provided that Pirelli invited all the other teams to test and to show that it had done so.

Again? The second condition wasn't adhered too.

Unintentionally, there was a MISTAKE mad in the procedure

Pirelli did not inform the other teams, Merc assumed they had

Everyone agrees that it was unfortunate and a shame, and that the FIA needed to tighten up procedures

(then FIA, Merc and Pirelli shared the costs of the hearing)

[Jabberwocky]

If you are innocent you don't get a punishment!

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

[CookinFlat6]

If you are innocent you don't get a punishment!

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

Merc are guilty for sure......

of making a mistake

not of cheating

not of deliberately setting out to break the rules

If you killed someone by mistake, you could get a punishment, but still wouldn't make you guilty of murder (intent to kill)

Say you have a shotgun, and you blow someones head off whilst showing him how the grooves inside the barrel look, and your firearms license prohibits letting a third party touch the gun, but your mate had his own license. Would you be guilty of;

A) Murder?
B) Manslaughter
C) Breaking the terms of your licence
D) Nothing, the licence didnt cover this explicitly
E) All the above
F) None of the above
G) Christian Horner Butt hurting

What say you?

[Jabberwocky]

Assisted suicide.

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

[CookinFlat6]

Still not murder, in fact you strengthen my case as the charge for assisted suicide is never murder

[What's Burning?]

If you are innocent you don't get a punishment!

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

Merc are guilty for sure......

of making a mistake

not of cheating

not of deliberately setting out to break the rules

If you killed someone by mistake, you could get a punishment, but still wouldn't make you guilty of murder (intent to kill)

Say you have a shotgun, and you blow someones head off whilst showing him how the grooves inside the barrel look, and your firearms license prohibits letting a third party touch the gun, but your mate had his own license. Would you be guilty of;

A) Murder?
B) Manslaughter
C) Breaking the terms of your licence
D) Nothing, the licence didnt cover this explicitly
E) All the above
F) None of the above
G) Christian Horner Butt hurting

What say you?

Forgive my ignorance but the hell would a shotgun need a grooved barrel? Isn't that only for bullets? And my answer is H) you'd be eligible for a Darwin award.

[CookinFlat6]

Thats the whole idea WB, you would need a real good reason to get someone to look carefully down a barrel i.e you are possibly upto something