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By vaptin
#233373
Wait, he's actually resigned now? Shame...

Always so much turmoil within the Ferrari team and no stability, a shame really. :(


Are you sure? I'm trying to find it confirmed in the meda but i can't find anything at the moment...

Just speaking of the team's history. No media confirmation needed when you have followed them for 32yr's, daym how time fly's :yikes: !


Damn you Tex :hehe: , you had me there, don't scare me like that.
#233375
The only 2 determining factors were:
1) The SC
2) Being called to pit in before he had enough gap against the cars that had pitted during the SC.

Exactly what I say. It’s so difficult to accept the mere possibility that these two so determinants facts could have been manipulated? Is it so impossible an even insane to evaluate if those two unbelievable “mistakes” were true mistakes?
Must anyone be called unanimously a paranoid only for pointing that?
User avatar
By Jensonb
#233432
The only 2 determining factors were:
1) The SC
2) Being called to pit in before he had enough gap against the cars that had pitted during the SC.

Exactly what I say. It’s so difficult to accept the mere possibility that these two so determinants facts could have been manipulated? Is it so impossible an even insane to evaluate if those two unbelievable “mistakes” were true mistakes?
Must anyone be called unanimously a paranoid only for pointing that?

You sir are missing the fundamental ingredient that is needed to present a criminal accusation. Motive. To what end would the result be manipulated in such a way? To make Vettel the champion because he was Bernie's favourite son? Okay, that provides an admittedly far-fetched, though feasible, explanation for the Safety Car being deployed...Except:

In order for that motive to be applied to this scenario, you would need motives for:

1) The driver(s) and possibly team(s) who caused the Safety to be deployed to take part.
2) Chris Dyer, the man who apparently made the call to pit at Ferrari, and all those working under him - and arguably, above him too, since they had oversight to say "No, that won't work".

What you are failing to grasp is that something being possible is no indicator that it is in any way likely. It is possible that the US Government orchestrated 9/11. It's also incredibly, unbelievably, inconceivably unlikely, for a similar reason: WHAT WAS TO BE GAINED? Just because you can come up with a motive for what you might call the master criminal in each case (Bernie, presumably, in the F1 example and Bush in the terrorism example) doesn't mean you have a feasible narrative.

What I asked you about, which you have NEVER filled me in on, is WHY. WHY would all these people go along with this? For what possible reason would Chris Dyer deliberately doom his own driver's chances, doing unknown damage to his own career in the process? Why would Schumacher risk his life spinning his car completely around? He has kids for chrissakes.

So, again, it is not about the possibility that a given variable can be manipulated. It's about the fact that manipulating it makes no sense in context. Logic is not a digital process. You cannot say "X occurred. X is influenced by Y, which is a controlled variable. Ergo, Y was manipulated to deliberately produce X." It's not that simple. Partially because any number of outside factors influence Y itself, but also because - and I know I'm repeating myself, but this is the crucial point - it's not enough to say you think it happened because it could have, you have to explain what caused it to play out the way you are insinuating. This is not a trivial matter of opinion, this is not you saying you think "a is better than b" or "Disneyland is more fun than Universal Studios". The opinion you are pushing here is a criminal accusation against (At least) three individuals, with no apparent motive for at least two of them and no evidence for any of them. It is ABSOLUTELY NOT completely within your rights to imply that Chris Dyer, or anybody else - Schumacher, Bernie, whoever it may be - rigged the result of an international sporting event and go unchallenged.
User avatar
By f1ea
#233437
Exactly what I say. It’s so difficult to accept the mere possibility that these two so determinants facts could have been manipulated? Is it so impossible an even insane to evaluate if those two unbelievable “mistakes” were true mistakes?
Must anyone be called unanimously a paranoid only for pointing that?


Well, not really. Those were the 2 defining factors, doesnt mean they were manipulated. Had Hamilton managed to pass Vettel, it would have been determining as well; would that have been manipulated?

I dont think you're being paranoid, but even Ferrari are looking somewhere else for their mistakes... truth is, nobody knows if it was manipulated or not, but the people who should know seem to have let it go... so i guess, the best is to just let it go and assume it was stuff that happens..........
#233441
I’m not presenting a criminal accusation; I’m just trying to evaluate objectively some facts and, what I find when I present those facts to others? All of them without hesitation, not a single second to open their eyes and minds to take it into the lesser consideration, attack me unanimously calling me from idiot to lunatic, without knowing me or considering the facts……..Just as a simple an automatic reaction of repulsion, more instinctive than reasoned.
Must anyone be called unanimously a paranoid for exposing the possibility that two maneuvers could have been made on purpose in a world like F1? Or should we give him a chance of explain himself and take into consideration what he has to say and why, before deciding if it is or it is not possible that such things have happened?
Now, we find that the supposedly implicates in those facts Ross Brawn, Michael Schumacher and Chris Dyer have successfully worked together in the past, collaborating in the achievement of several WDC in a row.
It is so absolutely unimaginable that they decided to work together again, conceiving a strategy, to achieve another WDC? It is so impossible to believe?
Apparently Chris Dyer knew that he was going to be replaced by Pat Fry. Could he found himself betrayed for Ferrari? Is he a human being?
Chris Dyer, the man who apparently made the call to pit at Ferrari, and all those working under him - and arguably, above him too, since they had oversight to say "No, that won't work".

I can see that you don’t know how teams and companies in general work. There is a man responsible who takes the decisions; in that case Chris Dyer took the decision to pit. Or you believe that they begin to discuss between them every time that any other member of the team disagree with the chief strategist. He evaluates the facts, hear the opinions and take the decision that is coursed immediately.
WHAT WAS TO BE GAINED? Just because you can come up with a motive.../ What I asked you about, which you have NEVER filled me in on, is WHY. WHY would all these people go along with this? .

How could be their motive? Why would they do it? You cannot find any? Is this the reason for what you find the whole thing absolutely absurd and unsustainable?
What was at the stake? What was the reward? The FORMULA 1 WORLD DRIVERS' CHAMPIONSHIP. It isn’t enough for you? What do you think is its value in any terms? Economic, Prestige, Sponsorship, Personal satisfaction………. What can you demand for giving it? EVERYTHING
What do you believe all those people from the F1 have been fighting for during the whole year? At the races, the factories, engineers, mechanics, everybody, every day with only one objective.

You say that I have not the right to say anything against or about somebody?
Thanks God I and all of us have the right to state our own opinion about everything that happens in this world and I believe that we are at this Forum precisely to have the opportunity to share those opinions and discussing and reasoning about them.
By Mygulf
#233444
Hey people I am new to this post so please help me to get more idea about this so even i can post my review here.
Thanks in advance,
Regards,

A Spammer
Last edited by Jabberwocky on 07 Jan 11, 11:52, edited 1 time in total.Reason: SPAM URL Removed
#233445
Exactly what I say. It’s so difficult to accept the mere possibility that these two so determinants facts could have been manipulated? Is it so impossible an even insane to evaluate if those two unbelievable “mistakes” were true mistakes?
Must anyone be called unanimously a paranoid only for pointing that?


Well, not really. Those were the 2 defining factors, doesnt mean they were manipulated. Had Hamilton managed to pass Vettel, it would have been determining as well; would that have been manipulated?

I dont think you're being paranoid, but even Ferrari are looking somewhere else for their mistakes... truth is, nobody knows if it was manipulated or not, but the people who should know seem to have let it go... so i guess, the best is to just let it go and assume it was stuff that happens..........


I understand you f1ea. You haven’t said that these two key factors were manipulated. It’s me who says that. And I don’t say that for the sake of it. You can’t imagine how many times I’ve seen the accident, trying to believe that it wasn’t a simulation, but it is. I’ve watched every movement of the cars, the Schumacher’s hands, the car inertia, the approach of Rosberg. It’s impossible for me to believe that it wasn’t simulated.
Are you sure that Ferrari is looking somewhere else for their mistakes. What would suppose for the F1 prestige to reveal that those people had manipulated the race and the Championship. Maybe Ferrari doesn’t have proofs enough, especially in the case of Chris Dyer, because he can always say that it was a mistake. You can guess the reaction from most of the Media, saying that Ferrari knows how to win but not how to lose, with the support of the FIA, Bernie, Mercedes, Red Bull…… It’s a very difficult question for them.
Anyway, I’ve seen the Q3 and the race a lot of times and after some reflection I’ve made my opinion and want to defend it with facts and reasoning. Nothing is gonna change, but why are we here if it’s not for sharing freely our opinions and debate about them?

PD: If Hamilton would managed to pass Vettel it wasn't been manipulated they were racing against each other, in any case, at the contrary, if you allow somebody to pass you.
User avatar
By F1er
#233449
Image

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Image

Schumi.......Yeaaaaah we did it! No way Alonso will be WDC now! It was inch perfect,you parked the car 10cm from my head.Nice job!

Liuzzi..........Thanks Mike! Now lets hope that guy Jack Master doesnt blow this wide open! Mike.......he can try but nobody will believe him!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Last edited by F1er on 07 Jan 11, 09:04, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By F1er
#233450
:wavey: . You can’t imagine how many times I’ve seen the accident, trying to believe that it wasn’t a simulation, but it is. :wavey:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You cant be serious!!!!!!!!!!!!

Schumi planned his nearly missed by inches "IMPALEMENT" ?????? Are you suggesting he has a death wish and in order for people to put him past Senna he must die?????

I see this is a case of..........................................................


Image
User avatar
By Hexagram
#233466
I read the original post and then I see others arguing over conspiracy. You guys are pretty funny sometimes.

Anyway, Stefano is a good team principle. The call was from Chris Dyer, a dire decision that had me shouting at the tv not to do. No pun intended. :hehe:

Ferrari went against everything Alonso had been saying the whole time, aim for podiums. When he should have been chasing down Button for 3rd they got concerned about Webber in 12th-13th after his pitstop. Pathetic.
User avatar
By bud
#233475
Only people who would possibly consider the Abu Dabi race as staged are sour Alonso fans who cannot handle the fact he was beaten.
And im sorry if you think it was a conspiracy you have issues and should seek help! :banghead:
#233486
Ever watch the movie 12 angry men?

Ok, I'll say this one time, since this thread seemingly has run it's course. If there continues to be personal bashing, it will get locked.

This is not like the movie 12 angry men. Jack, you stand alone on this one. It takes courage, to stand alone, however I personally think you're wrong (not crazy) see the difference people? So everyone else, if you think Jack is so way out there on this, just tell him he's wrong and move along, I just spent two hours shoveling snow, I'm not in the greatest of moods, so the trigger finger is itchy. Anyway there was a whole fun thread on this topic, and anyone that REALLY wants to go back and discuss it can go do it there.
User avatar
By texasmr2
#233490
Jack your wrong !!!

Still two months to go before the start of the season so I hope the 'camp' is now sorted because they have their work cut out for them. A little birdie landed on my shoulder and told me that Mike and Ross had a conference call with Stefano and things are now sorted.
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