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Fact to back that up:-
1) (already played, but here's a replay to save you going back to the start of the thread)
Turkey 2010 (a few months ago)
Lewis to Team "Will Jensen pass me"
Team to Lewis "No"
Why do you keep using this as proof of a team order?
I swear i have posted this i think to you like 3 times now.
Button did overtake meaning if that was a team order it isn't exactly valid when the drivers didn't follow it, i agree what was said can be shown as team orders but since almost instantly after that was said Button did overtake it defeats the point of what was said doesn't it?
I didnt even notice it until you pointed it out!
So what? It's not exactly difficult to learn how to spell his name and considering the fact he's the F1 World Champion and this is an F1 Forum, it's pretty reasonable to expect someone to spell it correctly. I get so sick of F1 fans spelling it Jensen, it's not like we don't see it written down every Grand Prix. Nobody goes around calling Lewis Hamilton "Louis" or Felipe Massa "Philippe". Bottom line, if you're going to write a lengthy analytical post about modern Formula 1 make sure you're bleeding well knowledgable enough to spell the reigning world champion's freaking name.
Seriously dude are you a cop? If you're a cop, please don't go arresting people who mispronounce/misspell your idol's name in the neighbourhood man....seriously lighten up. I'm sure Jenson won't be shedding tears seeing some forumer misspelling his name.
I didnt even notice it until you pointed it out!
So what? It's not exactly difficult to learn how to spell his name and considering the fact he's the F1 World Champion and this is an F1 Forum, it's pretty reasonable to expect someone to spell it correctly. I get so sick of F1 fans spelling it Jensen, it's not like we don't see it written down every Grand Prix. Nobody goes around calling Lewis Hamilton "Louis" or Felipe Massa "Philippe". Bottom line, if you're going to write a lengthy analytical post about modern Formula 1 make sure you're bleeding well knowledgable enough to spell the reigning world champion's freaking name.
Seriously dude are you a cop? If you're a cop, please don't go arresting people who mispronounce/misspell your idol's name in the neighbourhood man....seriously lighten up. I'm sure Jenson won't be shedding tears seeing some forumer misspelling his name.
The problem is he actually thinks he is Jensen( lol,think that's how you spell it) i mean who actually calls themselves LewisH on this forum.
You're gonna get it...Yeah, it's states a lack of literacy
Lol
Back at the topic,there might be team orders but there are team orders in most of the teams,arent there?But team orders in McLaren wouldnt cause fights like in Ferrari or RedBull.Instead,they would motive Jenson and Lewis to do better.Thats what i love about McLaren
. Please find me the source which reported Felipe running into the Ferrari Motorhome and trashing the place in anger pleading for the blood from Alonso's neck. 
Yeah, it's states a lack of literacy
Lol
Back at the topic,there might be team orders but there are team orders in most of the teams,arent there?But team orders in McLaren wouldnt cause fights like in Ferrari or RedBull.Instead,they would motive Jenson and Lewis to do better.Thats what i love about McLaren
Yeah because when Webber shouted "not bad for a number 2 driver" (or something along those lines) he said it in pure anger and through the lack of motivation.
And if you think Ferarri team orders caused a "fight" well then you really need to read up about F1 because your talking absolute
You think Lewis and Jenson are some god sent angels here to bless us with their pure excellence in driving and sportsmanship when you really dont know anything.
Ignorance is bliss.
And congratulations you are the only person who has made me need to you the censored symbol for the year or so i have been on the forum.
I didnt even notice it until you pointed it out!
So what? It's not exactly difficult to learn how to spell his name and considering the fact he's the F1 World Champion and this is an F1 Forum, it's pretty reasonable to expect someone to spell it correctly. I get so sick of F1 fans spelling it Jensen, it's not like we don't see it written down every Grand Prix. Nobody goes around calling Lewis Hamilton "Louis" or Felipe Massa "Philippe". Bottom line, if you're going to write a lengthy analytical post about modern Formula 1 make sure you're bleeding well knowledgable enough to spell the reigning world champion's freaking name.
Seriously dude are you a cop? If you're a cop, please don't go arresting people who mispronounce/misspell your idol's name in the neighbourhood man....seriously lighten up. I'm sure Jenson won't be shedding tears seeing some forumer misspelling his name.
The problem is he actually thinks he is Jensen( lol,think that's how you spell it) i mean who actually calls themselves LewisH on this forum.
Well, Jenson is being very, very clever in my opinion. He knew full well that another result with he and Lewis in the points and not far apart would leave him in squarely in the "team order target zone". He also fully knows the truth about Team Orders at McLaren, and he didn't need the WMSC decision to make him aware of that fact.
Jenson is showing that he is no Ronbot and, his press positioning during this ridiculous team orders farce, is simply making sure that, even if he is given a team order, he can blissfully ignore it - a touch of convenient deafness, or a problem radio, or a simple thumbing of his nose will suffice. The team would of course punish him, but they know they will take a massive amount of stick for it now - he has very shrewdly upped the anti on them.
I dare say Ferrari has been dealt an important life-line in both title fights this year with the team order card being effectively taken away from McLaren by Jenson's media savvy actions.
Was re-reading this thread, thought I'd better give my reply to Peng.
Here we go:-
1) At the recent WMSC hearing, Ferrari submitted that team orders had been used in the past, the specific examples quoted by Ferrari were Germany 2008 and Turkey 2010. In their decision, the WMSC accepted that team orders have been used by other teams and the implementation of the rule had been selective. Ergo, this is no longer a matter of "opinion" it is a "fact" from the governing body.
2) Irrespective of whether Jenson heard or obeyed the Team Order, the evidence is clear that the team had an "order" in place.
3) Listen to the radio immediately Jenson passed Lewis, the desperate urgency of "fuel is critical, I repeat fuel is critical!!!!"
4) The team order of McLaren is restored
Was re-reading this thread, thought I'd better give my reply to Peng.
Here we go:-
1) At the recent WMSC hearing, Ferrari submitted that team orders had been used in the past, the specific examples quoted by Ferrari were Germany 2008 and Turkey 2010. In their decision, the WMSC accepted that team orders have been used by other teams and the implementation of the rule had been selective. Ergo, this is no longer a matter of "opinion" it is a "fact" from the governing body.
2) Irrespective of whether Jenson heard or obeyed the Team Order, the evidence is clear that the team had an "order" in place.
3) Listen to the radio immediately Jenson passed Lewis, the desperate urgency of "fuel is critical, I repeat fuel is critical!!!!"
4) The team order of McLaren is restored
Not really read up on much about the WMSC hearing since i knew Ferrari would get off free but i would love to see where it says Ferrari gave the Mclaren Turkey incident as proof of team orders from other teams and how they convinced the WMSC of that if you can give a link.
And personally i am not a Mclaren fan i am a Hamilton and Button fan mainly because i support my own country, infact i actually dislike quite a few things Mclaren do and Turkey was one of them.
Why? because what i saw from that incident wasn't team orders but a lack of communication between not only Hamilton and his engineers but between both drivers personal teams,
1. Hamilton First got told to save fuel and also told both cars were doing so.
2. next he told his engineers that Button was closing in on him and they replied that they understood (an understandable reaction to your engineers after being told to turn your engine down and watching a car behind you slowly get closer and closer).
3. Hamilton asks if he slows down to conserve fuel will Jenson pass him which they respond to as No Lewis NO (this part would be the team orders you speak of to which could quite easily be seen as Hamilton's engineers believing Button was also conserving fuel which he wasn't).
4. Button overtakes Hamilton and Buttons Engineers tell him fuel is critical and that he needs to conserve it.
5. Hamilton re overtakes almost pushing Button off the track at turn 1. (even if button had turned down his engine at this point the move Hamilton used to retake 1st place was a real overtake not a move by Button to let Hamilton passed).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7IiR6Mg ... re=related - shows what happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UVGOLML ... re=related - Slow motion of Hamilton retaking 1st place pushing Button wide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e87FQtd ... re=related - Different view.
Just incase you had forgotten what actually happened.
Was it team orders? does it really make a difference? that was 1 of the best battles of this years season and their haven't really been many.
WMSC Disciplinary Decision; Section 6 (Decision) Sub-item (c) states:-
"The Judging Body of the WMSC did however consider there were many examples of what could have been said to be team orders in Formula One in recent years, and therefore there had been inconsistency in its application. Also its application to indirect team orders via messages where drivers raise no complaint in uncertain and difficult to detect and police. The Judging Body of the WMSC accepted that this may well have influenced Ferrari's approach, and Ferrari also had a legitimate concern to avoid collisions between team mates in close on track racing."
These explanations simply just don't hold water. I can understand if you don't like team orders that you don't want the people you support doing "it". But honestly, you need to smell the coffee beans here mate. Ask yourself this question, if, as Jenson and Lewis say, they are racing each other like any other drivers on the track, then, if Lewis asked his engineer "Fernando is closing on me, will he pass me if I conserve fuel?" do you think, even if the engineer thought Fernando was conserving fuel that he would give Lewis an unqualified unequivocal "NO"?
I'm sorry to tell you that it was a clear team order. But, what I'd also like to tell you is I don't think you should be swayed by the current wave of anti-team-order hysteria in the UK. It comes more from the opportunity to bash Ferrari rather than being based in genuine sentiment that it is bad.
In my opinion team orders are good and the sooner they have a complete green light the better. As it stands now, Ferrari have been handed a huge advantage over Jenson and Lewis. Ferrari can act like team mates, in soccer parlance Fernando and Felipe can pass the ball to each other and help each other. Lewis and Jenson are painted into a corner where they are on their own, if they do anything that even has a sniff of "team" about it then they will be howled down as the worlds biggest hypocrites.
WMSC Disciplinary Decision; Section 6 (Decision) Sub-item (c) states:-
"The Judging Body of the WMSC did however consider there were many examples of what could have been said to be team orders in Formula One in recent years, and therefore there had been inconsistency in its application. Also its application to indirect team orders via messages where drivers raise no complaint in uncertain and difficult to detect and police. The Judging Body of the WMSC accepted that this may well have influenced Ferrari's approach, and Ferrari also had a legitimate concern to avoid collisions between team mates in close on track racing."
No where in that does it refer to a specific incident so i wouldn't call the proof that the WMSC believe the Turkey incident was team orders, you can read that however you like but i can think of several times in recent years that i would consider team orders that they have mentioned and Turkey wouldn't be 1 of them.
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. 
No where in that does it refer to a specific incident so i wouldn't call the proof that the WMSC believe the Turkey incident was team orders, you can read that however you like but i can think of several times in recent years that i would consider team orders that they have mentioned and Turkey wouldn't be 1 of them.
However it makes no real difference as you clearly wont accept the fact that even "IF" the radio message was a team order neither driver followed said team order and they ended up battling for 1st place.
Did you watch the videos i linked?
... we can have team mates crashing to help their number one driver win
... also purposefully holding up the pack is always fun because who wants to see battling for 1st place?
that could also work in qualifying to force a competitive team out of the 3rd phase of qualifying! who cares if your number 2 driver gets a grid penalty of 10 places when your rivals are in 10th and 11th!
Trust me i understand team orders are used in every race but almost all of them have no impact on the finishing positions in a race and those types of orders from what i know have always been allowed, go back and check the rule Ferrari broke it wasn't just "TEAM ORDERS!!!!!!" it was "team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited".
I seriously wonder at times if everything that has happened was reversed and Mclaren did the team order and ferrari were involved in the Turkey incident would you be defending Mclaren? i would be posting the exact same thing i am now because if the team/drivers i support mess up i am the first to tell them they suck yet some people seem to have rose coloured glasses for their team/drivers no matter what stupid crap they do.
Edit : You know what though i am pretty sure you will reply with how i am wrong so i think ill just stop trying to convince you of something you are clearly too blinded by red to see.
No where in that does it refer to a specific incident so i wouldn't call the proof that the WMSC believe the Turkey incident was team orders, you can read that however you like but i can think of several times in recent years that i would consider team orders that they have mentioned and Turkey wouldn't be 1 of them.
Didn't Ferrari in their defense invoke exactly the Turkish GP 2010 with the LH/JB shenanigans???
that happened in Germany but he wont or cba to give me a link so its fine.I seriously wonder at times if everything that has happened was reversed and Mclaren did the team order and ferrari were involved in the Turkey incident would you be defending Mclaren? i would be posting the exact same thing i am now because if the team/drivers i support mess up i am the first to tell them they suck yet some people seem to have rose coloured glasses for their team/drivers no matter what stupid crap they do.
I accept team orders and think they are a good thing. I accept that all teams do it, including Ferrari. The difference I see is that you think Jenson and Lewis have never been involved in a team order. You probably think Rubens was completely wrong last year when he complained that Jenson was favored and benefited from team orders. You probably will tell me that when Rubens was ordered to make an extra, unplanned, unnecessary pit stop to enable Jenson to pass that it wasn't a team order that Jenson knew he was benefiting from.
Silly statement, if you want to challenge me that's fine, I enjoy the discussion, but don't try and diminish my contentions by deriding me for being a Ferrari fan.
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