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#169885
Hill was no Senna, Prost or Mansell, but on a good day he could take them all on. And those who say he only won races because he was driving a Williams
I'm not one of those, for the record
should re-watch the 1997 Hungarian GP when he nearly won in a crap Arrows, if only he had forced JV even wider and make him spin out... :twisted: It might be argued that the super performance of the Arrows that weekend was a fluke, in that it just so happened that none of the competitive cars got the setup right in time for the race, and Hill did. Hill is known for his car development skills, and the planets lined up for him then, I agree only a few people could have done what he did that day but they would have needed HIM to set it up, and then it wouldn't suit them. The gradual improvement the Arrows made over 97 was 99% thanks to Hill's development skills. However it can't be ignored that the Ferraris were slow that weekend(Shumacher seemed to negotiating the Colorado River in a garbage scow), and so were the Williamses. Yes he was no Mansell Prost or Senna. My point is neither is Button, at least in the eyes of the team principals.
I think Button seemed to head back towards his best in Brazil and then stepped it up a further notch in Abu Dhabi, which I think proves that he can be one of the best when everything is right.

He did perform superhuman there, but it's really the only time he ever did. If he did that in every race, with less than the best car, then he would be considered the best. He wouldn't have been in a Brawn because he would have already been on some "top" team and wouldn't want to leave.
#169886
I still think it would be a fundamentaly bad idea to have both Jenson and captain invincible in the same team, I just don't see how the car can be designed for their completely opposite driving styles. Though maybe Jenson can teach the captain what tyre management is.

Yeah he sure managed Rubens' tire in Brazil!
#169897
I still think it would be a fundamentaly bad idea to have both Jenson and captain invincible in the same team, I just don't see how the car can be designed for their completely opposite driving styles. Though maybe Jenson can teach the captain what tyre management is.


Like you say maybe he can teach LH tyre management,something that will ofcourse be more vital next season with the cars carrying heavier loads.
#169899
i think LH will wipe the floor with him

if i was him, and i could take being beaten by my team mate the vast majority of the time, and wanted the best car, then i think he should go to mclaren, they are gonna be better than brawn next year im sure

however

if he cant take being consistently beaten, stay at brawn
#169902
Button is top of McLaren's shopping list now (Ahead of Kimi) because he's better value. JB at 8 Million is a better value than Kimi at the 20+ Million he's asking for (Yes, even with the - albeit smaller because he'd be driving - Ferrari payoff). Obviously, McLaren are trying to get Kimi to take a pay cut, but it seems the flying Finn is none too keen on the idea and thinks that the Ferrari issue is none of McLaren's concern.

From Button's point of view, he has two top teams fighting for his services. Ross Brawn is too wily to admit it, but he and that team desperately want to keep him onboard (And behind closed doors Ross has been reported to consider it a top priority). But that sounds like a better position to be in than it is. In his heart of hearts, we all know Jenson is Brawn's (The team's) man through and through. And having just started to develop a working relationship with the greatest mind in F1, Ross himself, he's unlikely to want to break off.

But money talks, and at £8 Million Jenson would have the smallest retainer of any champion on the grid, and a smaller one than Vettel, who Jenson beat fair and square. It's not an unreasonable demand. No matter what you might think of Jenson's talent. Ross himself considers Jenson one of the best, and he's said so. McLaren seem to be more willing to go to that level. It's difficult to see where the problem lies for Brawn in terms of paying such a fee - they have lots of earning potential and the prospect of being pumped full of Mercedes's cash. An extra £3 Million is not going to kill them.

The problem is, joining McLaren puts Jenson on the back foot. For all Whitmarsh seems to have done a lot to make the team a more welcoming environment for two top-tier drivers than it was in the dying days of Dennis's reign, Button is a very different driver from Lewis and Lewis has the benefit of being used to the team - he's McLaren's man through and through. Even if they're offered equal treatment, Jenson is at a disadvantage because Lewis is better integrated with the team and the car is guaranteed to suit him more because he's the driver they knew they'd have. And that's a huge issue when the two drivers have such radically differing styles. JB needs a predictable, consistent sweet spot. LH needs something rugged and adaptable with bags of ultimate pace. Those are difficult traits to have in the same car.

And so the likely result of JB going to McLaren is everyone concluding Lewis is better and the pattern repeating the next year and the next because it's a self-replicating issue - LH outdoes JB, so the team have to focus on him as their better chance, right? And so the problem is compounded, and JB has to spend years carrying Lewis's water.

And so Jenson is stuck between a rock and a hard place. In the end, I suspect the Brawn deal will go through. Possibly at a figure between the 8 million and 5 million marks, and with the sponsorship & endorsements freedom. But I have to imagine that if Rosberg is getting paid any more than £3-4 Million, Button and Goddard will not be impressed.
#169907
i really think the brawn/honda car of last year flattered button, anyone who was average in that car wouldve been in the championship hunt,

so i think the moneys fair, it was the car that won more than button, kimi is the better driver, but his money demands and work ethic may give button a good shot at being in that macca
#169910
i really think the brawn/honda car of last year flattered button, anyone who was average in that car wouldve been in the championship hunt,

so i think the moneys fair, it was the car that won more than button, kimi is the better driver, but his money demands and work ethic may give button a good shot at being in that macca

Wow, that's a good point, what a same there was no race winning driver in the same car to compare him aga...

Oh, wait.
#169912
towards the end of the season button was pretty lucky on a umber of occasions, IMO and especially in the lat half both rubens and button dropped alot of points, and thier positions were fairly similar to each others, that suggests car or that both drivers are equal..

both drivers are ok to good, and the car was amazing, thats why they won
#169919
A lot of valid points made their JB but my personal opinion is that Kimi is still McLarens prefered driver. I also think he would be safer choice he is fast without any strings except for the price of course.


agreed, Plus I don't think Kimi will be flustered by not being the fastest all the time.
#169945
A lot of valid points made their JB but my personal opinion is that Kimi is still McLarens prefered driver. I also think he would be safer choice he is fast without any strings except for the price of course.


I agree. In spite of his world title I still don't think Button is in the upper echelons of drivers and Ross knows it but £8m isn't that much compared to some other overpaid drivers. Stick him on a two year contract at £8m and take it from there.

Brawn needs an experienced driver for developing the car.
#170006
A lot of valid points made their JB but my personal opinion is that Kimi is still McLarens prefered driver. I also think he would be safer choice he is fast without any strings except for the price of course.


agreed, Plus I don't think Kimi will be flustered by not being the fastest all the time.


Regarding Frost's comment, Kimi would be the preferred in terms of race winning and championship, but for publicity, money and everything like that Button is who they want and who knows being together might make the pair of them better in different ways as said before.

To Jabberwocky, I think Kimi if with McLaren would be the fastest lap setting driver again by a significant margin especially if McLaren work there magic on the car.
#170056
Thing is a swell Vodafone want Button because he'd be willing to do sponsorship and they'd have the two British drivers in F1 for advertising.

Whereas Kimi would not want to do any Advertising so he's even less value than Button in that sense more money and no advertising commitments.

I think the Commercial point of view has a small factor to play tho i don't think it would be top of the list for most teams.
#170059
I think the Commercial point of view has a small factor to play tho i don't think it would be top of the list for most teams.


I would certainly hope not, especially when it comes to a team like McLaren who have been around for long enough to know better!
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