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[AKR]

ok where's the real kiki and what have you done with her

Ferrari are great and McLaren are shiit. hahahahahahahahahahaha I am here of course but I take that comment back as well. Ferrari are great and so are McLaren, but I am only ever going to support Ferrari forever of course.

[Gaz]

ok where's the real kiki and what have you done with her

Ferrari are great and McLaren are shiit. hahahahahahahahahahaha I am here of course but I take that comment back as well. Ferrari are great and so are McLaren, but I am only ever going to support Ferrari forever of course.

the real kiki would never take it back or admit that Mclaren is great.

I think one of the admins needs to check the logs to see if this is the real AKR

[EwanM]

ok where's the real kiki and what have you done with her

Ferrari are great and McLaren are shiit. hahahahahahahahahahaha I am here of course but I take that comment back as well. Ferrari are great and so are McLaren, but I am only ever going to support Ferrari forever of course.

Shut up and take ur meds.

[Martin]

Ther's no such thing as the greatest team ever, its subjective and a matter of opinion.
There have been many great teams over the years - Lotus definitely,
Williams (active suspension)- .
Tyrell (6 wheeler one of their innovations)
Brabham (undercar extractor fan to increase downforce)
Hesketh (achieved amazing results in the 70s with a minuscule budget - also had female driver for a while Davina Gallica),
BRM (amazing engine developments) and so on and so on.
For me a great team is one that can produce innovation - that is what F1 is about, it is what sets F1 apart from all other motor racing formats. A team can be great but win very little, if it is driven by passion. The likes of today's Ferrari & McLaren are driven by money more than anything else. Sure they win a lot, but they damned well should do, but many teams achieve so much more per £ - Williams is a good example today.
Lets forget about the best team ever. There are very few of us able to remember and understand the contribution made by the early teams - Alfa, Jaguar, Matra etc. Lets just enjoy F1 for what it is whilst understanding that so many teams and individuals have brought F1 to where it is today.

[nsaqam]

Ther's no such thing as the greatest team ever, its subjective and a matter of opinion.
There have been many great teams over the years - Lotus definitely,
Williams (active suspension)- .
Tyrell (6 wheeler one of their innovations)
Brabham (undercar extractor fan to increase downforce)
Hesketh (achieved amazing results in the 70s with a minuscule budget - also had female driver for a while Davina Gallica),
BRM (amazing engine developments) and so on and so on.
For me a great team is one that can produce innovation - that is what F1 is about, it is what sets F1 apart from all other motor racing formats. A team can be great but win very little, if it is driven by passion. The likes of today's Ferrari & McLaren are driven by money more than anything else. Sure they win a lot, but they damned well should do, but many teams achieve so much more per £ - Williams is a good example today.
Lets forget about the best team ever. There are very few of us able to remember and understand the contribution made by the early teams - Alfa, Jaguar, Matra etc. Lets just enjoy F1 for what it is whilst understanding that so many teams and individuals have brought F1 to where it is today.

I'll give you Lotus for all the very relevant technological innovations introduced by them ( and because Colin Chapman is one of my heroes).
Williams has indeed been a great team throughout its history.
The Tyrell 6 wheeler was a technological dead end and unsuccessful to boot.
The Brabham fan car (the BT46 I think) won its one and only race at the hand of Niki Lauda but it was also a dangerous technological dead end and rightfully banned.
The BRM H16 was a horrible, troublesome, overly complicated, and vastly overweight engine. It was junk and hastened the end of BRM.
My point is that greatness in motorsport is not about technology but is about success over the long term.
I believe that winning is the final, overarching goal of any team as it should be IMO.

[AKR]

ok where's the real kiki and what have you done with her

Ferrari are great and McLaren are shiit. hahahahahahahahahahaha I am here of course but I take that comment back as well. Ferrari are great and so are McLaren, but I am only ever going to support Ferrari forever of course.

the real kiki would never take it back or admit that Mclaren is great.

I think one of the admins needs to check the logs to see if this is the real AKR

Check all you like. It is me. So what are you saying. Are you saying that it is wrong for me to stop hating? Hating is bad. Not just the act, but it is unhealthy. If I don't hate McLaren then I have no reason anymore to have to resort to putting them down and not admit reality. Ferrari is the greatest in the sense they have won the most. That is fact. But McLaren being the second most successfull and far more successfull to whoever is in 3rd, plus McLaren probably being better than Ferrari in terms of innovative ideas and inventions has got to be great as well. Once again if I no longer hate, why do I need to deny this?

[darwin dali]

ok where's the real kiki and what have you done with her

Ferrari are great and McLaren are shiit. hahahahahahahahahahaha I am here of course but I take that comment back as well. Ferrari are great and so are McLaren, but I am only ever going to support Ferrari forever of course.

the real kiki would never take it back or admit that Mclaren is great.

I think one of the admins needs to check the logs to see if this is the real AKR

Check all you like. It is me. So what are you saying. Are you saying that it is wrong for me to stop hating? Hating is bad. Not just the act, but it is unhealthy. If I don't hate McLaren then I have no reason anymore to have to resort to putting them down and not admit reality. Ferrari is the greatest in the sense they have won the most. That is fact. But McLaren being the second most successfull and far more successfull to whoever is in 3rd, plus McLaren probably being better than Ferrari in terms of innovative ideas and inventions has got to be great as well. Once again if I no longer hate, why do I need to deny this?

Ah welcome back Kiki - how I missed your convoluted reasoning!

[Martin]

To the question about which is the greatest ever F1 team it all depends on how one defines greatness for a F1 team.
Here are some numbers.

Wins per races entered,
Ferrari 27%
McLaren 25%

WDC's per seasons active,
McLaren 28%
Ferrari 25%

WCC's per season active,
Ferrari 27%
McLaren 19%

Longest dry spell for WDC
McLaren 8 seasons 2000-2007
Ferrari 19 seasons 1980-1999

Longest dry spell for WCC
McLaren 9 seasons 1999-present
Ferrari 15 seasons 1984-1998

I'll leave it to you all to determine which is the greatest team ever in F1.
There can be no question however that Ferrari completely tanked it in the '80's and '90's

What an excellent post nsaqam, proves my point though, about 'the greatest' being subjective.
However, thanks for these fascinating facts nsaqam, but why are we only considering Ferrari & McLaren? - because they are the top 2 in recent history?
This is supposed to be the best team EVER. So, we should consider Bentley, and Mercedes Benz, or, maybe we should add the previous Mercedes Benz results to current MClaren results - that would knock Ferrari into the 'also ran' category. What do we do when a team changes name? Is Renault & Beneton really the same team? Or, we could just get on with enjoying F1 as it is and accept that there is no such thing as 'The Best Team EVER' times change, technologies change its like comparing F1 with 3 legged races - there IS no comparison.

[nsaqam]

To the question about which is the greatest ever F1 team it all depends on how one defines greatness for a F1 team.
Here are some numbers.

Wins per races entered,
Ferrari 27%
McLaren 25%

WDC's per seasons active,
McLaren 28%
Ferrari 25%

WCC's per season active,
Ferrari 27%
McLaren 19%

Longest dry spell for WDC
McLaren 8 seasons 2000-2007
Ferrari 19 seasons 1980-1999

Longest dry spell for WCC
McLaren 9 seasons 1999-present
Ferrari 15 seasons 1984-1998

I'll leave it to you all to determine which is the greatest team ever in F1.
There can be no question however that Ferrari completely tanked it in the '80's and '90's

What an excellent post nsaqam, proves my point though, about 'the greatest' being subjective.
However, thanks for these fascinating facts nsaqam, but why are we only considering Ferrari & McLaren? - because they are the top 2 in recent history?
This is supposed to be the best team EVER. So, we should consider Bentley, and Mercedes Benz, or, maybe we should add the previous Mercedes Benz results to current MClaren results - that would knock Ferrari into the 'also ran' category. What do we do when a team changes name? Is Renault & Beneton really the same team? Or, we could just get on with enjoying F1 as it is and accept that there is no such thing as 'The Best Team EVER' times change, technologies change its like comparing F1 with 3 legged races - there IS no comparison.

Thank you for your kind words Martin.
I've always felt that F1 began in 1950 with the creation of the WDC so that is the point I use to make my calculations.
The reason I chose Ferrari and McLaren is because since 1950 these teams have had the most success as it relates to winning championships. Other teams, notably Lotus, Williams, and to a lesser extent, Matra, Renault, Benetton, and Brabham have had periods of success, even domination, but their glory days were not as long lived as those of Ferrari and McLaren.
There can be no argument that the "greatest team" debate is truly subjective but my calculus for determining the greatest is winning races and championships over a long span of years and circumstances.

[Martin]

Well done again nsaqam.
I've cracked it folks - nsaqam for president of FIA !!
What d'you reckon boys & girls?

[bud]

i think the true term should be greatest Franchise (how American of me) instead of greatest team. and that would have to be Ferrari!
But as for the term Team i would apply to certain era's and you cant deny the Schumacher, Brawn & Byrne team arent up there as the greatest "team" of people! 7 Titles between them with 2 different constructors cant deny those stats.

[Martin]

i think the true term should be greatest Franchise (how American of me) instead of greatest team. and that would have to be Ferrari!
But as for the term Team i would apply to certain era's and you cant deny the Schumacher, Brawn & Byrne team arent up there as the greatest "team" of people! 7 Titles between them with 2 different constructors cant deny those stats.

Did you deliberately leave Todt out of this 'team' Bud?

[bud]

i think the true term should be greatest Franchise (how American of me) instead of greatest team. and that would have to be Ferrari!
But as for the term Team i would apply to certain era's and you cant deny the Schumacher, Brawn & Byrne team arent up there as the greatest "team" of people! 7 Titles between them with 2 different constructors cant deny those stats.

Did you deliberately leave Todt out of this 'team' Bud?

yes he wasnt there at Benetton, they did fine without him

[texasmr2]

Well done again nsaqam.
I've cracked it folks - nsaqam for president of FIA !!
What d'you reckon boys & girls?

There are certainly a few very knowledgable members here who would make a great FIA president imho.

[darwin dali]

i think the true term should be greatest Franchise (how American of me) instead of greatest team. and that would have to be Ferrari!
But as for the term Team i would apply to certain era's and you cant deny the Schumacher, Brawn & Byrne team arent up there as the greatest "team" of people! 7 Titles between them with 2 different constructors cant deny those stats.

Bud, are you well? Just worried because of these statements coming from you...