FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[racechick]

haha. As we said when the whining started, Merc had the most to gain by an unfreeze, confirmed now by Toto. They were trying to protect costs. Well the whiners have what they want, now let's see what they do with it.

[CookinFlat6]

The less able whiners are going to say that a competition for engine makers to make the best engine that uses a 100 units of fuel for a race for a fixed price is unfair because some of the engine makers got beaten and so should have more fuel allowance or more money allowance, or even (this is the best one) unlimited amount of money

Where is the challenge in that, lets spend as much as we want to make an engine that uses as little fuel as we can achieve.

Next they will be wanting to go back to older inefficient engines and spend without limit un dimishing returns, err hold on......

[sagi58]

WoW!!

[racechick]

Following talks with the FIA it seems Honda will now be allowed to tweek their engine. I must say I think that's only fair. i Don't know how much tweeking will be allowed?whether they will have the same amount if tweeking as the other engine manufacturers?
https://twitter.com/rachelbrookestv/sta ... 8905766915

[What's Burning?]

What rules? I have to say I'm glad, it's always preferable to beat a strong opponent but the FiA had another way around this. Make all teams homologize by Feb 28th as intended. Looking forward to the excuses from the usual suspects this year when they get the same results.

[CookinFlat6]

Following talks with the FIA it seems Honda will now be allowed to tweek their engine. I must say I think that's only fair. i Don't know how much tweeking will be allowed?whether they will have the same amount if tweeking as the other engine manufacturers?
https://twitter.com/rachelbrookestv/sta ... 8905766915

This is actually the worse case scenario for Ferrari and to a lesser degree RBR. Its a foregone conclusion that Merc will replicate its margin over those 2 in the races before any updates arrive. However Honda can now arrive (having had a year to watch and learn from Merc) AND now being allowed to carry on developing in response to track running and update the car once any niggles are ironed out without waiting a whole year like the others last year.

So Honda have 66 tokens to deploy through the year for 1 customer only, on top of having an extra year to prepare in first place. Would have been much better for Ferrari to have stuck to original plan and get whipped again by Merc and hope Honda didnt get it spot on first time (by feb) and therefore lag behind Ferrari who have had an extra year of sorting niggles.
Now they have Honda fully licensed to beat RBR and Ferrari further down the order by using performance (gained from extra year of seeing Mercs solution) and reliability (can update thru the season to sort niggles)

So Erick the Gaul has the last laugh after all, apart from Merc (who have a fully sorted update ready, and can save money by trying to improve it even more towards 2016, before even having to spend money to introduce it, so Merc get much better than how much better they already got with their lead from last year)

Mind boggling bit of nose slice self harm from Ferrari and Horner - no wonder Horner has gone absolutely quiet and Ferrari practiced saying Arrivaderchi to Arivabene by saying bye to Mattisackie

(rules check = MnM is no longer F1 driver or personel)

[Hammer278]

^Exactly my thought when I saw the news. Ferrari will be pissing their red overalls seeing what Honda is doing during winter testing and in Melbourne.

If they managed to do some sort of significant espionage last season with the Merc engine they might even sneak a win this year or two if Rosberg has a couple of spare 'points to prove'.

News of Ferrari also saying they're behind schedule with the 2015 machine.

I think I might enjoy 2015 even more than 2014.

[CookinFlat6]

I am actually more enthusiastic about Ferraris ability to veto rules and change things - because they are even worse at that than at making winning cars

RBR are probably starting to realise they are better off not manipulating Ferrari into action anymore

And the Tifosi are brilliant, we just wait for them to start moaning and demanding wins and the team fire everyone and fall further behind

pure class

[CookinFlat6]

Honda are not actually allowed to use all 66 tokens in 2015. The FIA have fudged this again and said Honda can develop the same amount as the average of the others unused tokens.

They really should have the whole lot if they want but this is still a massive advantage for them as they are likely to get the whole lot on account of noone bringing an update at start of season - Erick is worth every penny so far

Friday's ruling will allow Honda to change a given amount of its engine calculated by the average of the number of tokens unused by the other manufacturers by the time of the first race in Australia on 16 March.
In the example given by FIA race director Charlie Whiting, and seen by BBC Sport, he writes: "If the three 2014 manufacturers have eight, seven and five unused tokens respectively at the start of the season, then the new manufacturer will be allowed to use six during the season (the average rounded down to the nearest whole number)".

Why has this been done?
Honda, which is the first new engine manufacturer to enter F1 for well over a decade, had been concerned that it was not being treated fairly.
Its senior management flew over from Japan to meet the FIA on Monday to express its concerns at the situation.
This followed the decision by the FIA to allow Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari to use their 32 development tokens over the course of the 2015 season, rather than by the originally intended approval date of 28 February.

That came after Ferrari, who had the worst engine in 2014, pointed out to the FIA that the rules did not clearly define when the modified engines for 2015 should be submitted for approval.

Whiting admitted in his note to the teams on Friday evening that that ruling left "unaddressed uncertainty" within the rules on the permitted engine development.

What appeared unfair to Honda:
Its rivals could develop their engines in 2015 following the FIA's initial U-turn but it could not
It was being forced to supply only four engines to its drivers in 2015, the same as the other manufacturers, even though its rivals were allowed to supply five in their first season with their new engines in 2014
In 2016, it was being allowed to use only 25 units of development, the same restrictions on it as the other manufacturers, meaning it missed out on the 32 its rivals could use in 2015.
The FIA's decision also takes into account the opinions of Honda's rivals that it had an advantage inherent in entering a year late in that it knew a target to aim for, because it was aware of the performance of the rival engines in 2014.
By contrast, Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari were shooting in the dark before 2014, when the new turbo hybrid engine formula, with accompanying fuel restriction, was introduced.
What number of tokens will Honda have available?

None of the three existing manufacturers are expected to start the season with an engine that uses all 32 development tokens.
Mercedes are in the best position, but both Renault and to an even greater extent Ferrari will leave substantial leeway to make major changes to their engine architecture during the season as they are both behind where they wanted to be in terms of development.

It is unclear exactly how much Honda will be able to develop its engine, but the latest FIA ruling and the positions of its rivals mean it is likely to have a significant amount of development available.

[darwin dali]

Sounds like a fair compromise.

[racechick]

I think Honda are absolutely right with this! It wasn't fair at all as it stood, different rules for different teams, that's not what Honda signed up to. And by getting their knickers in a twist over Mercedes doing a better job, Hornet and Ferrari have just made things a whole lot worse for themselves.

[darwin dali]

:clap: I think Honda are absolutely right with this! It wasn't fair at all as it stood, different rules for different teams, that's not what Honda signed up to. And by getting their knickers in a twist over Mercedes doing a better job, Hornet and Ferrari have just made things a whole lot worse for themselves.

???

[racechick]

sorry he should have worked for Jordan shouldn't he! I didn't mean to do that. Honestly. It's the keyboard!

[What's Burning?]

Everything but the five engine thing is okay. Why should they not suffer a penalty for their driver using a fifth engine while another team and its driver will? The tokens thing was indeed an unforeseen change until the Horner and Ferrari whinefest, but Honda knew they had to design an engine that could go five races, because that rule was the same for everyone.

[CookinFlat6]

I think Honda have always had to provide 4 engines in line with the rest. That was in the original rules that newcomers would have to conform alongside original entrants as the regs got progessively tighter year on year. As it is Honda have just won the lottery, because they can now have 4 new engine updates thru the year and therefore fix any reliablity or design flaws iteratively and for performance at same time - something Renault would have killed for last year when they were running around drilling holes in the side for cooling. With a new update in a few months, they could have redesigned instead of just patch up

If Honda dont blow everyone bar Merc (and maybe its top customer) to bits this year then I think there will be some ritual suicides and assisted (by Alonso) samurai decapitations in Woking at some point