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[RyRy]

Omg 6 days to go wel be therr in our ghost outfits with our lewis flag http://www.mediafire.com/view/82h2lhk4240za64/brusamolympics.jpg cant frickin wait

*edit - I still dont get how to post pics

Tempted on making you a video on how haha xD

Anyway in regards to this thread, I find it hilarious how some of you think you can read deeply into Lewis's mindset and understand him and other drivers on a psychological level.

Anyone doubting Lewis and his ability clearly dislikes him or likes one of his rivals more, remember he's had two races where car problems ended his fight and more than likely two podiums one being a win and then think about the fact he has win four races this season already and had a series of seconds. Now think about the races in detail Hamilton on average has been able to match and follow Rosberg on most tracks including Bahrain where he held Rosberg off after the safety car. The statistics show that Hamilton is doing better than Rosberg minus the car problems both drivers have had.

[Roth]

Anyway in regards to this thread, I find it hilarious how some of you think you can read deeply into Lewis's mindset and understand him and other drivers on a psychological level.

Anyone doubting Lewis and his ability clearly dislikes him or likes one of his rivals more, remember he's had two races where car problems ended his fight and more than likely two podiums one being a win and then think about the fact he has win four races this season already and had a series of seconds. Now think about the races in detail Hamilton on average has been able to match and follow Rosberg on most tracks including Bahrain where he held Rosberg off after the safety car. The statistics show that Hamilton is doing better than Rosberg minus the car problems both drivers have had.

Great, another person who isn't quite getting it. This thread hasn't been about who is better. We know who's better.

It's boiled down to qualifying, and we've been having a discussion about why he might be making mistakes.

And because it's a discussion and this is a discussion forum it seemed as good a place as any to hold it. But maybe that's just me.

[CookinFlat6]

Discussions are good, but sometimes a stated premise is so far off course it attracts resistance from several different people. Yes its increasingly down to qualifying, and Lewis has made a mistake in quali. However its a stretch to declare that a psycological weakness that confirms a pattern in his career.
On the BBc before the race the commentators went on and on about how hamilton in 9th was under the most pressure this season, how he had a 'mountain' to climb, how he couldnt afford to drop so many points by letting the grid position basically affect his head in the race, to get desperate or make mistakes etc - basically to let things go from bad to worse

At the end of the first lap they were waxing lyrical about how well he had done and continued to do throughout the whole race

It just doesnt make sense for anyone to say, because he made a few mistakes in quali (which his teammate has done more of) obviously trying too hard to beat his lightning fast teammate that he must be psychiologically weak - especially when he goes on to drive incredibly well despite the mountain of pressure

If his quali mistakes where caused by some mindset glitch then we will most definitely have seen a ton more glitches in the race. If the quali mistake confirms a pattern of Hamiltons psychological weakness letting things escalate into more and more bad luck (lets ignore his near perfect performances since 2011 for a second) then why did he make zero mistakes over 70 laps when he had even more pressure? How does this pattern (from a period in 2011 stay dormant for the next 2 years then erupt again in a quali then disappear) stay a pattern when its not repeated

'oh its a pattern but its only happened once or twice' how does that work? 'oh my curtain has a pattern of red stripes despite there been only 1 red stripe down the middle'

It doesnt make sense

[Roth]

He isn't error strewn but is making small mistakes at crucial times. I never doubted he'd climb the field quickly, but he doesn't need to climb the field quickly, that's a given in the merc, he needs to finish ahead of Nico which is basically finish first. Again you're lumping me in with what the BBC have said, and their point isn't my point. I'm not a pundit trying to create drama for an audience.

The arguement isn't either he's nuts or he's fine. It's not necessarily a blanket weakness where his general racecraft has gone awry. But quali is a different mindset to racing and he knows how important it is. He doesn't fluff Q1 and 2, it's only Q3, after he's appeared to have the legs on everyone. So either Nico's better at sandbagging or something happens in those final twelve minutes that has gotten into Hamilton. Or it's an unfortunate coincidence, just a blip.

I'm only trying to discuss a very specific area, but once again Hamilton's entire career has been thrown at me. Which incidentally i could throw back at you and say, well, if he hasn't made these mistakes before, why is he making them now?

[racechick]

'Them ' again? It's just Austria. He messed up q3 in Austria. Nico messed up, or worse at Monaco and Lewis wasn't his usual several tenths faster then everyone else, at Canada, that's not an error. For all his talents he can't be fastest every lap every time. That's not making an error.

[CookinFlat6]

It feels now that the extra speed Hamilton has is no longer an advantage because he finds a way of negating it. I'm starting to feel we've seen this before in Hamilton, this psychological weakness we pretend is misfortune.

Not a track Nico or Hamilton's been particularly successful on. Neither has the advantage. Here's hoping Hamilton doesn't shoot himself in the foot yet again. It's becoming the defining trait of the season so far.

It's gutting, I get that. But I realise Hamilton has a psychological weakeness that Nico's exploiting by proxy, and it's pointless denying it.

You are not one of those 'foot in mouth' experts, neither are you one of the 'I take it back, its all been a big mistake' types, and hopefully not one of the 'I will keep arguing by modifying my position until I am actually arguing against my own original premise' merchants

And like I said before I can see where you are coming from without the sweeping unsubstantiated statements e.g how do the original assertions above equate to the following ones?

The arguement isn't either he's nuts or he's fine. It's not necessarily a blanket weakness where his general racecraft has gone awry.

So either Nico's better at sandbagging or something happens in those final twelve minutes that has gotten into Hamilton. Or it's an unfortunate coincidence, just a blip.

I'm only trying to discuss a very specific area, but once again Hamilton's entire career has been thrown at me.

(You are the one who said this confirmed a pattern seen before with Hamilton - psychological weakness manifesting as bad luck i.e thru his career)

How does

'its the defining trait of the season so far'

relate to

He may have only been 700ths slower in Canada but he was faster overall so being behind is a bad thing, a mess up. It's got nothing to do with his proximity to Nico's time, but the implications of being behind. If it was Alonso dragging the Ferrari to within 700ths, now that would be a good thing, a great performance. For Hamilton it was a bad thing because he should have been infront - the resultant issues and retirement all stemmed from following Nico

[Roth]

...It's just going slower. You've got nothing to worry about then.

(to racechick...)

[LiamCatterson]

Me and my mother will be trying to get on The F1 Show on the Thursday before seeing Kaisers. Oh my god...What if I speak on national TV...Now I am getting shy at the thought

[Roth]

You know, cookin, I've written a lot of words here, far more than I intended, and haven't done any cross referencing, so yes, you may find hole's in my arguement (other than it's plain wrong). But in my head strangely it all tallies. I can't write more now but will later.

[racechick]

...It's just going slower. You've got nothing to worry about then.

(to racechick...)

I'd have something serious to worry about if Lewis was going slower every race, but he isn't. The vast majority of the time he's going faster.

[CookinFlat6]

And there are absolutely understandable reasons for trying to sandbag in 2 q3s

He was tryng to remove the advantage of data sharing to the weaker driver

That's the reason he left his runs till last, there is no mysterious mental glitch, he tried something that IMO was worth the risk.

If we had seen 3 races in a row where Lewis was faster only to see Nico pull tricks in Q3, many would be saying he is not smart enough to sandbag or try

[Roth]

This goes back to the telemetry insinuation, that it's one way and only Hamilton's sandbagging. Nico's been doing it too, but not running into the same Q3 issues.

[CookinFlat6]

Telemetry sandbagging - Ok Nico has done it, so has Lewis. Nico has messed up his last quali run a few times and Lewis has messed his up a couple of times

Yet Lewis is psychologically weak for telemetry sandbagging and messing up quali

and this confirms to you a pattern see thru his career

of psychological weakness manifesting as bad luck

roth, you havent suddenly become a tifosi have you?

[Roth]

Are you sure you're not the Vettel apologists in disguise - move along, nothing to see here, it's just a few car issues.

[CookinFlat6]

Nah, Vettel has more to worry about than psychological weakness, after the beating he has been getting from Ricc, Im sure he has backside weakness