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[CookinFlat6]

You already crossed the line by suggesting Seb was flattered by a very good car. I was expecting a (mentally) roughed up protester to erm protest

[madbrad]

I was only playing devil's advocate. I meant it looks like it on specific occasions but I don't assert it.

[mnmracer]

Why would I rough up a Seb supporter?

Cookinflat6 doesn't understand the difference between your words and factual lies. Not your fault

[mnmracer]

Would Seb be as fast round the corner as the other 2 without the car built around his trick that helps tame the understeer?

Considering Bourdais said understeer was Vettel's strong point, it's a question that is already answered.

[mnmracer]

Good point said by a few of you that one mark of a great driver is that he can adapt to any car. Would you say Vettel has done that or would you say that hasn't yet come up in his case? I'm leaning toward the latter. Not to disparage him or take away from his skill, just that from here it looks like he has had it done for him since he got all comfy in Torro Rosso.

He has adapted to the challenges that were given to him.
He was successful in the rear-loose Torro Rosso, as well as the rear-planted Red Bull.
He was successful on both grooved tires and slicks.
He was successful on Bridgestone's and on Pirelli's.
He was successful with and without DRS.
He was successful with and without KERS.
He was successful with and without blow diffuser.
The only configuration he wasn't able to master was 3 wheels, but that's because the stewards didn't allow him.

None of those facts support the idea that Vettel can not adapt to a car.
Other than China 2012, where he choose a different type of set-up he thought he could make work, what support do you have for your premise?

[CookinFlat6]

[mnmracer]

Wonderful insights
Now let the serious people comment.

[Zekenwolf]

He has adapted to the challenges that were given to him.
He was successful in the rear-loose Torro Rosso, as well as the rear-planted Red Bull.
He was successful on both grooved tires and slicks.
He was successful on Bridgestone's and on Pirelli's.
He was successful with and without DRS.
He was successful with and without KERS.
He was successful with and without blow diffuser.
The only configuration he wasn't able to master was 3 wheels, but that's because the stewards didn't allow him.

One of the things that I have always felt about Vettel was that he is adaptable to the situation. Apart from those mentioned above,

- He kept the car going with a near empty oil tank for the last third of the race to keep P2 in Interlagos in 2011
- He adapted to the changed settings in Abu Dhabi 2012 and got a podium starting from the pit lane.
- Again at Interlagos in 2012, he brought the car home virtually on life-support to retain the championship.

No doubt detractors will come up with exotic explanations of how 'lucky' he was to have managed those feats. But in reality, only a great driver could have managed those.

[mnmracer]

No doubt detractors will come up with exotic explanations of how 'lucky' he was to have managed those feats.

So true. The only truly predictable thing in Formula One these days.

[Nin-Chin]

Brazil was a gearbox issue,which was dropping gearbox fluid,Abu Dhabi 2012,drivers are used to setup changes,Vettel has over 4 years of expierence in F1,Webber did it in China 2013,he was doing well til he crashed into Vergne.So it isn't that special.

This is my opinion.

[madbrad]

My premise needs no support because it does not exist.
Looks like we finally have a Seb supporter in here. I still don't see any white coats!
Factual lies? That's an oxymoron. Well it would be if it were one word.
I didn't mean to turn the thread into a Vettel discussion though. It was just an example. I'm sure there's a thread or two around here for people to throw insults at each other about their views of Vettel.

[CookinFlat6]

Would Seb be as fast round the corner as the other 2 without the car built around his trick that helps tame the understeer?

Considering Bourdais said understeer was Vettel's strong point, it's a question that is already answered.

You do not know what you are talking about. Bourdais said oversteer was a strong point of Sebs, not understeer. 2 different things. You argue about his 'trick' but dont even understand how he drives

If you had read the full post before jumping in, you would have noticed I was talking about how Seb limits the oversteer. The reference to understeer was a clear typo. Yet you copied it and then twisted Bourdais words to match. You have been hurling insults over a technical discussion about how Seb drives yet you are ignorant on the finer details but still have no qualms about insulting smarter people just because you feel Seb is magically good

Dirty shameful and deceitful. Sneaky behaviour but you were caught this time pal

[What's Burning?]

This is like arguing about which is the best primary color. The point of the article was to point out how top drivers differentiate themselves for the rest. There are no clear ways to do that, but the skilled ones find a way. When in a dominant car, you've only got to defeat one person, your team mate.

When not in a dominant car, you've got to beat cars painted other colors plus your team mate. Vettel has enjoyed the most consistently fast machine in the field for many a season now and has managed to deliver each time. Good for him. There will come a time when he won't have the dominant car and then we'll see what he can do, not just what he can do with the best car.

BTW Brazil last year was all about luck, Vettel was lucky there was little else going on there, driver skill to keep in the point? Driver skill would have been to not get into the brouhaha he did in the first lap. IMO he handles pressure as well as a balsa wood I beam.

[Hammer278]

So much discussion over a piece of article written by an onlooker!

It was a nice read, but you do realize that the guy is writing what he sees and thinks about the styles of the drivers? I'd take the piece with a pinch of salt, it's just a bit too detailed with how the drivers treat their cars...I'm sure these 3 drivers are just the best at controlling a car using their instincts and have the best feel for what their cars are doing.

What I know is that Hamilton is without doubt the last of the late breakers compared to anyone else since it's proven with telemetry. This is a new article I found reg Hamilton's thoughts pre-Monza:

"The car is different to the McLaren, it behaves differently and it pitches differently," he said. "It's just the way the technology is now, there are some things that help us benefit elsewhere but it hampers the car a little bit for me under braking. It's something we are working on and we can improve on over the course of time.

"It's not been that bad over the last few races. I think I'm getting the best out of it. If you look at my brake pressure compared to Nico's, who's much more comfortable with it, they're similar, but if you look over the past seven years my brake pressure was way more than Jenson's, way more than Heikki's and it was always more than Fernando's. That's the difference that I see this year but we are just trying to make improvements on it and I am doing the best I can with it."

[LRW]

This is like arguing about which is the best primary color.....

No, its not, because thats not an argument. Its Red.