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[Denthúl]

Thing to remember in all of this, Mclaren got rid of Ryan rather than taking it as a team.

I can't see them doing that just to make it look like it was Ryans Idea.

i'd like to hear its from Ryans point of view to see what he actualy did.

i mean if he came out and said it was Lewis's idea then fine i'd accept that. But if he came out and said yeh it was my idea i conviced lewis to lie would the people here who think its all Lewis doing accept that?

I am Listing to reason here i mean i don't see how people here can't accept the idea that Lewis could be infulened to do this.

The FIA have.

Deflecting the blame away from the drivers, a tactic that they have used several times in the past. Ryan is likely to have received a large sum to compensate for his unnecessary fall, and so will more than likely not appear before the WMSC.

[EwanM]

Thing to remember in all of this, Mclaren got rid of Ryan rather than taking it as a team.

I can't see them doing that just to make it look like it was Ryans Idea.

i'd like to hear its from Ryans point of view to see what he actualy did.

i mean if he came out and said it was Lewis's idea then fine i'd accept that. But if he came out and said yeh it was my idea i conviced lewis to lie would the people here who think its all Lewis doing accept that?

I am Listing to reason here i mean i don't see how people here can't accept the idea that Lewis could be infulened to do this.

The FIA have.

Deflecting the blame away from the drivers, a tactic that they have used several times in the past. Ryan is likely to have received a large sum to compensate for his unnecessary fall, and so will more than likely not appear before the WMSC.

f*** it, aye your right!

[McLaren Fan]

Deflecting the blame away from the drivers, a tactic that they have used several times in the past. Ryan is likely to have received a large sum to compensate for his unnecessary fall, and so will more than likely not appear before the WMSC.

I think the FIA would be within their rights to summon Ryan, but I suspect he'll tow the party line.

Moreover, unless Ryan pointed at a gun at Hamilton or something along those lines, I'd find it very hard to believe Hamilton was forced to lie.

[Gaz]

Thing to remember in all of this, Mclaren got rid of Ryan rather than taking it as a team.

I can't see them doing that just to make it look like it was Ryans Idea.

i'd like to hear its from Ryans point of view to see what he actualy did.

i mean if he came out and said it was Lewis's idea then fine i'd accept that. But if he came out and said yeh it was my idea i conviced lewis to lie would the people here who think its all Lewis doing accept that?

I am Listing to reason here i mean i don't see how people here can't accept the idea that Lewis could be infulened to do this.

The FIA have.

Deflecting the blame away from the drivers, a tactic that they have used several times in the past. Ryan is likely to have received a large sum to compensate for his unnecessary fall, and so will more than likely not appear before the WMSC.

I could belive that but again its speculation, which is what i'm doing either one of us could be right.

So you need the opinion of somone on the inside who knows Mclaren and Knows Davey.

DC - and hes said what i have said.

And i'm sorry i can't imagine i don't give a f*** dc being forced to come all Hamilton freindly for the BBC who have said themself they won't make this the LH show and are concentrating alot more on Button/Brawn this year (and rightly so)

[Denthúl]

Thing to remember in all of this, Mclaren got rid of Ryan rather than taking it as a team.

I can't see them doing that just to make it look like it was Ryans Idea.

i'd like to hear its from Ryans point of view to see what he actualy did.

i mean if he came out and said it was Lewis's idea then fine i'd accept that. But if he came out and said yeh it was my idea i conviced lewis to lie would the people here who think its all Lewis doing accept that?

I am Listing to reason here i mean i don't see how people here can't accept the idea that Lewis could be infulened to do this.

The FIA have.

Deflecting the blame away from the drivers, a tactic that they have used several times in the past. Ryan is likely to have received a large sum to compensate for his unnecessary fall, and so will more than likely not appear before the WMSC.

I could belive that but again its speculation, which is what i'm doing either one of us could be right.

So you need the opinion of somone on the inside who knows Mclaren and Knows Davey.

DC - and hes said what i have said.

And i'm sorry i can't imagine i don't give a f*** dc being forced to come all Hamilton freindly for the BBC who have said themself they won't make this the LH show and are concentrating alot more on Button/Brawn this year (and rightly so)

DC was with McLaren in a different era. How many of these scandals occurred whilst DC was there? None? That's what I thought.

Deflecting the blame away from the drivers, a tactic that they have used several times in the past. Ryan is likely to have received a large sum to compensate for his unnecessary fall, and so will more than likely not appear before the WMSC.

I think the FIA would be within their rights to summon Ryan, but I suspect he'll tow the party line.

Moreover, unless Ryan pointed at a gun at Hamilton or something along those lines, I'd find it very hard to believe Hamilton was forced to lie.

Agreed.

[Gaz]

DC was with McLaren in a different era. How many of these scandals occurred whilst DC was there? None? That's what I thought.

Hardly the same people were there.

[EwanM]

What?
Most of Mclaren's core staff and well those behind the management - were still there!

[Denthúl]

DC was with McLaren in a different era. How many of these scandals occurred whilst DC was there? None? That's what I thought.

Hardly the same people were there.

I'm looking at the way the team acts and presents itself. There has been a rather large change in recent years.

[EwanM]

And there is a catalyst there.

[Gaz]

DC was with McLaren in a different era. How many of these scandals occurred whilst DC was there? None? That's what I thought.

Hardly the same people were there.

I'm looking at the way the team acts and presents itself. There has been a rather large change in recent years.

Spygate was becaue of Ferrari staff joining.

And this was a result of Spa.

Two things hardly a massive chagne.

[McLaren Fan]

Yeah, I have to completely disagree with Denthúl about the spy scandal and Spa. Both of those were political coups by the FIA. To an extent, the current scandal is as well, but this time rather than McLaren being framed, the team have stitched up themselves. Where the chance has happened at McLaren is the "lovie-dovie" treatment Hamilton is receiving. And because of it, I'm getting very disenchanted with McLaren. It's not the team I supported in the days of Senna.

[billindenver]

One would have to be a pretty naive child to believe that the team could force Hamilton to parrot a lie for several days but then he magically grew enough balls to call a press conference after getting caught.

[Denthúl]

Yeah, I have to completely disagree with Denthúl about the spy scandal and Spa. Both of those were political coups by the FIA. To an extent, the current scandal is as well, but this time rather than McLaren being framed, the team have stitched up themselves. Where the chance has happened at McLaren is the "lovie-dovie" treatment Hamilton is receiving. And because of it, I'm getting very disenchanted with McLaren. It's not the team I supported in the days of Senna.

Hm? I'm not entirely sure you took what I was saying in the way that it was intended. To me, it's not the same team that was competing when I started watching, when Hakkinen and DC were there.

To me, they seem to have 'loosened-up', they're still corporate and professional, but not in the way that they used to be.

[McLaren Fan]

What I mean to say is the team does not treat its staff like it used to. Before Hamilton arrived on the scene, there was no special employee status for anybody and McLaren stuck together as a team through the tough times. Now what have got? Ryan has been made a scapegoat and Whitmarsh and Dennis are also prepared to be sacrificed to save Hamilton's arse. It was only a week or two ago Whitmarsh said there was not a blame culture because of the MP4-24's performance. But, of course, as soon as Hamilton is under fire, people were very quick to point the figure.

[Denthúl]

What I mean to say is the team does not treat its staff like it used to. Before Hamilton arrived on the scene, there was no special employee status for anybody and McLaren stuck together as a team through the tough times. Now what have got? Ryan has been made a scapegoat and Whitmarsh and Dennis are also prepared to be sacrificed to save Hamilton's arse. It was only a week or two ago Whitmarsh said there was not a blame culture because of the MP4-24's performance. But, of course, as soon as Hamilton is under fire, people were very quick to point the figure.

Yeah and that's a shame really, because Whitmarsh, Dennis and Ryan are critical figures at McLaren. If they all are gone by the end of this, then McLaren might be languishing at the bottom of the tables for a good few years, which is not what we wish to see.