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[Peng]

Peng,

I was not saying that Vettel was controlling luck through magic powers. I was saying that Vettel took advantage of the luck and turned it into a race win. How many times have drivers like Button done the same thing? (Or Alonso in Singapore? )

That is the quality of a World Champion: the ability to read situations and turn it into the best possible scenario. All the greatest drivers have got lucky in their life. Just think - Massa would be a World Champion right now and Hamilton - very unlucky had Glock's tires not given up on him on the LAST corner, of the LAST lap, of the LAST race of the season.

That is what being a champion is about: Making the most of things.

As much as I really supported Hamilton in '08, I now feel sorry for Massa. He will likely never be close to winning a Championship again. Just like Webber. For those drivers, they had bad luck. Quite a lot of races and championships are decided on luck. Deal with it. It's part of racing.

Vettel was unbelievable. I'm certain he would've held off Alonso and Button, but a level-headed approach from the team would have been to bring him in shouldn't the tires have lasted. Vettel made the gamble to stay out. He is now supreme. Last year was his breaking-in year.But he was also good in a Torro Rosso! Why is so hard for many to accept that though that kid might look and act childish on the outside, but on the inside he is as determined and level-headed as the greatest? Think of this: In the 2004 German BMW Championship Vettel won 18 out of 20 races and the other two he finished on the podium. He was what 16?

We could very well see him repeat that feat this year.

No what you are saying is Vettel is the greatest driver ever to step foot into F1 and we should revere him for being so good.

Sadly although i think he is an amazing driver and is driving like a top tier driver this season he has a ways to go to be the best and as long as hes in a newey car with an average team mate and every other team fails to compete he wont ever get the chance to prove otherwise.

So when people claim he is unbelievable when he drives a substandard race its rather annoying, he wasn't special in Monaco he was actually off the pace for the majority of the race and that was before his tyres were 50 laps old, on any other track he would have easily been overtaken but yes he took advantage of the fact the RedBull is amazing on the corners that count (as in the least risky overtaking spots) and the mistake that Button made that put him behind Vettel and than took advantage of the safety cars that allowed him to go much easier on his tyres, oh and than took advantage of the red flag that let him change his 50+ old tyres for brand new 1s 9 laps from the end.

Yeah after thinking about it he is amazing i think ill go buy a red bull to celebrate.

[Big Azza]

Peng,

I was not saying that Vettel was controlling luck through magic powers. I was saying that Vettel took advantage of the luck and turned it into a race win. How many times have drivers like Button done the same thing? (Or Alonso in Singapore? )

That is the quality of a World Champion: the ability to read situations and turn it into the best possible scenario. All the greatest drivers have got lucky in their life. Just think - Massa would be a World Champion right now and Hamilton - very unlucky had Glock's tires not given up on him on the LAST corner, of the LAST lap, of the LAST race of the season.

That is what being a champion is about: Making the most of things.

As much as I really supported Hamilton in '08, I now feel sorry for Massa. He will likely never be close to winning a Championship again. Just like Webber. For those drivers, they had bad luck. Quite a lot of races and championships are decided on luck. Deal with it. It's part of racing.

Vettel was unbelievable. I'm certain he would've held off Alonso and Button, but a level-headed approach from the team would have been to bring him in shouldn't the tires have lasted. Vettel made the gamble to stay out. He is now supreme. Last year was his breaking-in year.But he was also good in a Torro Rosso! Why is so hard for many to accept that though that kid might look and act childish on the outside, but on the inside he is as determined and level-headed as the greatest? Think of this: In the 2004 German BMW Championship Vettel won 18 out of 20 races and the other two he finished on the podium. He was what 16?

We could very well see him repeat that feat this year.

No what you are saying is Vettel is the greatest driver ever to step foot into F1 and we should revere him for being so good.

Sadly although i think he is an amazing driver and is driving like a top tier driver this season he has a ways to go to be the best and as long as hes in a newey car with an average team mate and every other team fails to compete he wont ever get the chance to prove otherwise.

So when people claim he is unbelievable when he drives a substandard race its rather annoying, he wasn't special in Monaco he was actually off the pace for the majority of the race and that was before his tyres were 50 laps old, on any other track he would have easily been overtaken but yes he took advantage of the fact the RedBull is amazing on the corners that count (as in the least risky overtaking spots) and the mistake that Button made that put him behind Vettel and than took advantage of the safety cars that allowed him to go much easier on his tyres, oh and than took advantage of the red flag that let him change his 50+ old tyres for brand new 1s 9 laps from the end.

Yeah after thinking about it he is amazing i think ill go buy a red bull to celebrate.

He has proven otherwise. In a Torro Rosso! Again I'll draw everyone's attention to the following races: Fuji 07, China 07, Monaco 08, Italy 08, Brazil 08 (Anyone remember him overtaking Hamilton?) his qualifying pace was supreme back then. And it's better now. His overtaking was fantastic. He drove calculated, strategic races that involved a lot of overtaking - particularly in wet conditions. Now he is capitalising on luck - like a World Champion does, and like the greatest driver in the world should do.

I have not said is the best ever. I have said he WILL be the best ever, but for now he is the best talent on that grid. If not, then he is the fastest, and the best at controlling a race when he's in the lead. Now he has shown two races in a row that he can defend for multiple laps when another car is faster than him. That - and taking advantage of good and bad luck (remember he had both in Monaco) is all I needed to see to declare him the best driver there.

Vettel is like Alonso in that he is always three tenths faster than his team mate....

[Yoruba]

And I'll do you one better. The rule is more specifically two distinct moves. It is applied in instances of making a move once (Say, to the left) and then another back in the other direction (In this case, to the right) or in instances of moving (say) left once, to the middle of the track, and then left again to the far left edge of the track. Simply making two steering inputs does not qualify as two moves to defend. It has to be two distinct movements and they both have to clearly be blocks - ie, moving into the path of the pursuing car.

In short, the rule about making two moves to defend does not apply here.

Thus ends our little lesson in overtaking theory and the FIA Formula One World Championship Rule Book for the 2011 Season.

Based on your argument, the incident is 50-50. Massa is just as at fault as Hammy by what's bolded above.

And please tell us again how you can make 2 lateral moves without making 2 steering inputs ?

[Hammer278]

Hamilton apologises to Massa and Maldonado for outburst

Hamilton finished the race sixth after a difficult weekend and was clearly still frustrated when interviewed by the BBC following the race. He was penalised by the stewards for overtaking moves on Massa and Maldonado and in the heat of the moment criticised his fellow drivers, saying: "These drivers are absolute frickin' ridiculous, it's stupid."

However, on Monday he apologised to the pair via the social networking website Twitter: "To Massa and Maldonado, with the greatest respect I apologise if I offended you. Both of you are fantastic drivers who I regard highly."

Hamilton has already apologised to the stewards of the meeting for a joke referencing Ali G, which he admitted "wasn't funny at the time".

On Monday, he also sent out an apology to his fans via Twitter.

"Hey guys. I wanted to apologise for last weekend's performance and also my comments after, I never meant to offend no one."

He added: "To my fans lost and my fans won, I wish you nothing but love and happiness. God Bless you. Onwards and upwards, Montreal next. Lewis."

And in British newspapers, Hamilton explained his loss of temper.

"I don't do it to offend people or to hurt anyone," he said. "I do it because I love racing. I feel like I can do it better than others."

He also said his desire to succeed in Monaco, the past playground of his hero Ayrton Senna, is higher than ever.

"In my heart of hearts I believe I can own this circuit," said Hamilton. "I feel like I can be the fastest here. I was, and not with the fastest car."

He admitted the events of Sunday's race had frustrated him.

"I got hit [in the race] and my rear wing was hanging off and I was asked to come in and retire, and I refused," said Hamilton. "The first pit stop I was asked to pit and no one was there. So all the tension just boiled up."

____________________________________________________


Absolutely badass. Lewis really is the edge of McLarens sword.

[Jensonb]

And I'll do you one better. The rule is more specifically two distinct moves. It is applied in instances of making a move once (Say, to the left) and then another back in the other direction (In this case, to the right) or in instances of moving (say) left once, to the middle of the track, and then left again to the far left edge of the track. Simply making two steering inputs does not qualify as two moves to defend. It has to be two distinct movements and they both have to clearly be blocks - ie, moving into the path of the pursuing car.

In short, the rule about making two moves to defend does not apply here.

Thus ends our little lesson in overtaking theory and the FIA Formula One World Championship Rule Book for the 2011 Season.

Based on your argument, the incident is 50-50. Massa is just as at fault as Hammy by what's bolded above.

Are you joking? Surely you're joking. What part of Massa wasn't on a straight is escaping you? Which part of you are entitled to use two (Or more) inputs to make a turn do you not comprehend? What part of of "two distinct moves [which are] clearly blocks" is it that you're unable to get your head around? I feel I've been more than clear on this, Massa 100% did not break that rule because, for one thing, it doesn't even apply.

And please tell us again how you can make 2 lateral moves without making 2 steering inputs ?

Are you even paying attention? It's not about making two lateral moves without two steering movements it's that two steering inputs is not equivalent to two lateral movements. Massa's "second" move was him turning to reach the apex using an inside line, in contrast to Webber's slightly more outside line ahead of him.

AGAIN: The impetus is on the attacking driver to ensure both cars can safely make the turn and the defending car has priority for the turn over the attacking car unless the attacker draws level with the defending car at or before turn in. In this instance, Massa's turn in clearly indicated he was going to be using an inside line, hence Hamilton should have noted there would be no room for him on the inside. Not only did he not avoid directing his car to the space Massa was about to occupy, he actually used a line which would have required him to come virtually to a complete stop in order to make the turn, had Massa's car not been there to drag him around it. Hence, he did not ensure both cars could safely make the turn.

[Coronis]

Wow this thread exploded.. anyways, great drive from Vettel, too bad we didn't get a great ending. I was also pretty impressed with Webber's drive from 14-15th? to 4th, though its doubtful he could've challenged the top 3, but who knows. I believe the penalties on Hamilton were justified, but thats just me.

Finally we had an exciting race! First time I've actually watched the Monaco Grand Prix, and it was pretty great. I'd love a wet race too, just to toss things up a bit.

[vaptin]

Will this be the last time from Lewis? Seems to be a pattern with him, make comments then apologise for them later. I already guessed this apology was coming, but seriously, actually make him think about it for once.

[What's Burning?]

Why do we care about people's lives off track? The comments that Lewis has made post race can show anything from frustration to a lack of maturity to him just acting like a spoiled doofus, and love him or hate him no one's mind will change about him because or in spite of his comments. To complain about an apology is ridiculous though.

The sport has been filled with love/hate character types. Vettel through absolutely no fault of his own is disliked by many for what? Because he's had a successful career? Because of his finger? Because of what really? We can appreciate a driver much more because of their work outside of the sport or because of other factors in their lives that they've had to overcome, but in the end we watch for what their performance on track is not for what they do in their personal lives.

In the world of twitter, you tube and facebook everything is amplified and permanently recorded from a dozen points of view. Honestly would Senna or Hunt or any other polarizing driver like that be anywhere near their status in today's all media consuming world? I like Lewis Hamilton's driving style, I don't like his beard, or some of his post race comments, and interviews, but I'm not here raising my blood pressure over them, I've got yard work to do and conference calls to host.

I've seen arguments on this forum about Alonso's vacation plans going awry... come on, really? I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind here, but at least I can point out the absurdity of some of the arguments we perpetuate.

Try to have a nice day back at work or school everyone.

[FRAFPDD]

Hamilton fanboys Vs everyone else it seems on here..... theres some on here that will never stop defending Hamilton, so your all wasting your time.

Then you got the Vettel preachers using the thread to convince themselves over and over of something the dont truly believe, the same predicted text paragraph seen in every thread saying just how good Vettel is to drive from pole to flag every two weeks. Infact apparently hes the best driver in F1 now.


Can we not just lock this thread, even better the people that are reasonable just ignore the bellends that just spout rubbish.

If you want to go far enough mods and cull some forum members...........

[texasmr2]

Hamilton fanboys Vs everyone else it seems on here..... theres some on here that will never stop defending Hamilton, so your all wasting your time.

Then you got the Vettel preachers using the thread to convince themselves over and over of something the dont truly believe, the same predicted text paragraph seen in every thread saying just how good Vettel is to drive from pole to flag every two weeks. Infact apparently hes the best driver in F1 now.


Can we not just lock this thread, even better the people that are reasonable just ignore the bellends that just spout rubbish.

If you want to go far enough mods and cull some forum members...........

Oh come on dude this is a forum where opinion's are expressed openly, you no likey you no reply simple as that .

[Hammer278]

Agreed....really, I like Fraffy but the day he becomes a moderator here, this forum is so dead.

[FRAFPDD]

Hamilton fanboys Vs everyone else it seems on here..... theres some on here that will never stop defending Hamilton, so your all wasting your time.

Then you got the Vettel preachers using the thread to convince themselves over and over of something the dont truly believe, the same predicted text paragraph seen in every thread saying just how good Vettel is to drive from pole to flag every two weeks. Infact apparently hes the best driver in F1 now.


Can we not just lock this thread, even better the people that are reasonable just ignore the bellends that just spout rubbish.

If you want to go far enough mods and cull some forum members...........

Oh come on dude this is a forum where opinion's are expressed openly, you no likey you no reply simple as that .

I agree but saying i hate blacks (that is an extreme example of which i have no affiliation) is still an opinion, we dont allow it here, rightly so.

Sure this petty spat isnt as severe but i, or nobody else, shouldnt have to surrender the ability to post on their forums Monaco GP thread, because other people are ruining it for them. Its always the minority (fanboys, idiots) with the loudest, and most heard voice. Shouldnt be like that.

[FRAFPDD]

Agreed....really, I like Fraffy but the day he becomes a moderator here, this forum is so dead.

The forum will be dead before im ever allowed to think of becoming a mod lol.

[Hammer278]

[texasmr2]

It's just a forum about racing man that's all . Anywho the race is past tense so let's move onto Canada. DD I have not recieved my ticket or my 'outfit' yet and I'm starting too feel abit used !!!