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[What's Burning?]

I would say that they didn't show up for the race because of the continued domination by one team spoiling the show. The attendance was down 38% on race day in Germany, that's alot of lost revenue and a huge number of former F1 fans moving to other forms of entertainment! And of course Merc'c success this year is due to the engines otherwise why would Merc go out on a limb and risk their reputation by using a veto to prevent competition?

The idea of freezing engines as a cost saving measure probably sounded like a good idea but in reality its implementation was flawed and it just isn't working. It should have been called an engine lottery rather than a freeze.

So you're blaming the inability of Renault and Ferrari to produce a competetive engine on Mercedes, and you're blaming the lack of attendance in Germany on Mercedes continuing the domination? So it's this fifth year of domination that's the issue with attendance.

Whatever it is, the problem is limited to Germany, let them go figure it, there were lots and lots of venues that were sold out, despite it costing 500 bucks a weekend for a decent grandstand.

[sagi58]

It's not about agreeing with Mercs position, it's about some stated facts. Facts such as Ferrari don't need an unfreeze to catch up, they just need to do a better job. But let's ignore the facts and make our claims based on self admitted 'little knowledge'
While we are at it why do Feerari have to continue as a manufacturer if they can't make competitive engines within the rules? Just one valid reason will do. BMW, Toyota, Cosworth stopped, tell us why Ferrari continue if it's not working out for them?
Or just change the subject

You might want to re-read that without the rose-tinted glasses you're wearing as a Hamilton fan.
Sure, he is basically guaranteed the title, at this point. Sure, he will probably repeat that next
year, if Mercedes are successful in ruining competition in F1.

Just remember that just as you've declared there are asterisks beside the names of some WDC,
there are a lot of fans in F1 who will be placing one beside each title Mercedes and their drivers
win because of this.

[What's Burning?]

Aww boo hoo, Mercedes is not willing to be overly generous in givng the rest a 2nd chance....

Fact remains the others are trying their level best to be given another chance to get things right when this was never the deal in the first place, so Mercedes is the only one being rational here. Difference is they can afford to be rational since they're doing the winning. Doesn't make it their fault. Maybe they could start being charitable after 5 years of domination like Ferrari 2000-2004.

Your first comment doesn't merit any sort of a response (even though, technically, this is)!

Secondly, what "deal" are you referring to? The "deal" which is competition in F1?

Of course, Mercedes can afford to be rational, they aren't the ones losing money hand over
first because they can't compete at the front. Do you understand the ramifications if there
isn't any real competition in F1? There is a strong possibility that current sponsors of some
teams will decide they don't want to spend publicity money on teams that can't compete.
Then what? You don't think there would be even more teams declaring bankruptcy?

And, finally, did Ferrari have a hold over development during that period? I don't believe so.
Do you see the difference between what Mercedes is doing in using their veto?

[youtube]efyrzAewjz8[/youtube]

I laughed as much at this video as I did reading your post.

[CookinFlat6]

It's not about agreeing with Mercs position, it's about some stated facts. Facts such as Ferrari don't need an unfreeze to catch up, they just need to do a better job. But let's ignore the facts and make our claims based on self admitted 'little knowledge'
While we are at it why do Feerari have to continue as a manufacturer if they can't make competitive engines within the rules? Just one valid reason will do. BMW, Toyota, Cosworth stopped, tell us why Ferrari continue if it's not working out for them?
Or just change the subject

You might want to re-read that without the rose-tinted glasses you're wearing as a Hamilton fan.
Sure, he is basically guaranteed the title, at this point. Sure, he will probably repeat that next
year, if Mercedes are successful in ruining competition in F1.

Just remember that just as you've declared there are asterisks beside the names of some WDC,
there are a lot of fans in F1 who will be placing one beside each title Mercedes and their drivers
win because of this.

What's Hamilton gotta do with this? I suspected you would ignore the question and change the subject but you take the argumentum ad ignoratia to a new level. Ms gas an asteroid beside 5 if his 7 titles, Seb has 4 out of 4, Lewis would have 1 out of 2 according to this argumentum a ignoratia

Why don't Ferrari quit if they can't compete within the rules?

[What's Burning?]

Ooooh Oooh pick me, pick me! I know the answer to that one! Because they get 90 million dollars just to show up, because they're Ferrari and they have wear mantle of winning! But that's an easy thing to ignore for Ferrari fans when saying that the poor small teams can't compete because it's too expensive.

I can't wait till the bean counters to get a hold of the scuderia and the Tifosi have watch while the team is run on a shoestring budget like McLaren or Mercedes.

[CookinFlat6]

Your first comment doesn't merit any sort of a response (even though, technically, this is)!

Secondly, what "deal" are you referring to? The "deal" which is competition in F1?

Of course, Mercedes can afford to be rational, they aren't the ones losing money hand over
first because they can't compete at the front. Do you understand the ramifications if there
isn't any real competition in F1? There is a strong possibility that current sponsors of some
teams will decide they don't want to spend publicity money on teams that can't compete.
Then what? You don't think there would be even more teams declaring bankruptcy?

And, finally, did Ferrari have a hold over development during that period? I don't believe so.
Do you see the difference between what Mercedes is doing in using their veto?

I laughed as much at this video as I did reading your post.

I am not sure which part I found the funniest - Ferrari losing money hand over fist because they can't compete in F1????? With their 90 mill just for turning up and getting spanked by Williams, they haven't won jack for the years RBR were dominating or even before yet it's now they are losing money for not been allowed to chea.....compete??

If Ferrari can't afford it shouldn't they leave it to teams that can?

I love this one- the sponsors will leave if there is no competition? There are no more sponsors rushing into F1, in fact the only team gaining sponsors and not losing them is

Merc - funny that

Merc are using their veto???? The engines were frozen even more for the last 8 years and unfrozen by Ferrari demanding a return to engine centered regs instead if aero which Red Bull were dominating

Way too funny

[Hammer278]

Aww boo hoo, Mercedes is not willing to be overly generous in givng the rest a 2nd chance....

Fact remains the others are trying their level best to be given another chance to get things right when this was never the deal in the first place, so Mercedes is the only one being rational here. Difference is they can afford to be rational since they're doing the winning. Doesn't make it their fault. Maybe they could start being charitable after 5 years of domination like Ferrari 2000-2004.

Your first comment doesn't merit any sort of a response (even though, technically, this is)!

Secondly, what "deal" are you referring to? The "deal" which is competition in F1?

Of course, Mercedes can afford to be rational, they aren't the ones losing money hand over
first because they can't compete at the front. Do you understand the ramifications if there
isn't any real competition in F1? There is a strong possibility that current sponsors of some
teams will decide they don't want to spend publicity money on teams that can't compete.
Then what? You don't think there would be even more teams declaring bankruptcy?

And, finally, did Ferrari have a hold over development during that period? I don't believe so.
Do you see the difference between what Mercedes is doing in using their veto?

Ask Ferrari to be a little humane and give some of the charity they get for no reason to the small teams then. Since you care so much for the small teams. Why should Merc penalize their own efforts just because a two bit team with a big history is too selfish to play fair?

Ferrari have a hold over development period.....ROFLLLLL. Special Bridgestone tyres, the FIArarri in the palm of their hands, Max Mosley their PR Spokesman, special test track facilities in Mugello or whatever during a limited test period.

Don't make me laugh, I'm tired.

[overboost]

I would say that they didn't show up for the race because of the continued domination by one team spoiling the show. The attendance was down 38% on race day in Germany, that's alot of lost revenue and a huge number of former F1 fans moving to other forms of entertainment! And of course Merc'c success this year is due to the engines otherwise why would Merc go out on a limb and risk their reputation by using a veto to prevent competition?

The idea of freezing engines as a cost saving measure probably sounded like a good idea but in reality its implementation was flawed and it just isn't working. It should have been called an engine lottery rather than a freeze.

So you're blaming the inability of Renault and Ferrari to produce a competetive engine on Mercedes, and you're blaming the lack of attendance in Germany on Mercedes continuing the domination? So it's this fifth year of domination that's the issue with attendance.

Whatever it is, the problem is limited to Germany, let them go figure it, there were lots and lots of venues that were sold out, despite it costing 500 bucks a weekend for a decent grandstand.

The problem isn't related to just Germany though, that is the problem. There are empty seats showing up at many venues this season and TV viewership is reported to be down as well. This excessive freeze derived dominance, at some tracks 2 secs a lap, is a major factor. Throw in lack of engine sound and the ugly cars and it is a major mess that also drives away sponsors.

The engine freeze prevents any of the competition from fighting back through the season so fans need not to attend when the outcome is already determined. For F1 to thrive again the engine freeze needs to be adjusted to allow development.

Personally I am against rules which prevent innovation and competition and more and more it is apparent that Mercedes is creating this very thing in F1. Their values are tuned to just selling Mercs not to racing.

[CookinFlat6]

OMG! You are serious

Ok let's all be serious - so you think therefore we should have no restrictions on any development at all because most f1 reg eras tend to be won in dominant fashion by one team, so we should unlock all development to allow any team behind to catch up always

Should we have unlimited testing also?

[LiamCatterson]

Take this with a grain of salt but I hope this is true to be honest. Music to my ears

[darwin dali]

Take this with a grain of salt but I hope this is true to be honest. Music to my ears

Wouldn't that be something?!
Two birds with one stone: no freeze anymore and no mo stupid sounding engines.

[LiamCatterson]

Take this with a grain of salt but I hope this is true to be honest. Music to my ears

Wouldn't that be something?!
Two birds with one stone: no freeze anymore and no mo stupid sounding engines.

Furthermore, Lauda has said if F1 goes back to V8s, Mercs will leave the sport....

[CookinFlat6]

That's what Ferrari have been asking for since the start of the season. I hope Merc call their bluff as the Merc V8 and kers were the best engines

It's a great tactic 'let's kill F1 if we are not allowed to cheat'

Never worked for de montezedodo tho

[LiamCatterson]

That's what Ferrari have been asking for since the start of the season. I hope Merc call their bluff as the Merc V8 and kers were the best engines

It's a great tactic 'let's kill F1 if we are not allowed to cheat'

Never worked for de montezedodo tho

I assume it's Horner asking for this as well...Considering they're the closer rivals to Merc and they were the last champs of V8s.

[CookinFlat6]

Take this with a grain of salt but I hope this is true to be honest. Music to my ears

Wouldn't that be something?!
Two birds with one stone: no freeze anymore and no mo stupid sounding engines.

I think Ferrari will be praying for the old engines which were fixed

Surely they don't want to unfreeze Mercs V8 and Kers

It's the ERS side they are hurting on now, don't think they need Merc bolting the ERS onto the V8