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#363626
um... there are no new tires for the 2013 season so there is nothing for the teams to test. The tires tested by Pirelli with a Kevlar belt were deemed unnecessary since Pirelli were going to fix the delamination issue with an alternate manufacturing technique strengthening the shoulder area.

No team has tested those tires.

The only way to introduce new tires would have been to allow teams like Lotus, Sauber and Force India that are very happy with the way their cars run under the existing rubber to agree and that wasn't happening.

EDIT :hehe: just saw your edit.

LEEROY JENKINS!
User avatar
By racechick
#363632
Regarding all teams being given an equal chance to test FOR PIRELLI. Were not all teams asked more than once to offer their services? That's how I understand it. Mercedes took them up, but the offer was NOT exclusive to Mercedes. You snooze, you loose!
#363652
ESPNF1 The FIA says it will strengthen its control of testing and hopes that 'lessons are learnt' from the Mercedes tyre testing case.

Mercedes was found to be in breach of regulations for using its 2013 car in the test for Pirelli, but it received a relatively light punishment as the International Tribunal found the team acted in good faith and had no reason to believe approval had not been given by the FIA.

In noting the verdict delivered by the tribunal, the FIA said it would be clamping down on testing in future.

"The FIA wishes that lessons are learnt from this case and from the decision handed down," a statement read. "To this end, the FIA will make sure, in association with all F1 teams, that its control of the testings is strengthened."

Having been ordered to pay a third of the costs of the investigation and procedure as well as all of its own legal costs, the FIA did not state whether or not it intends to appeal the International Tribunal's decision.
User avatar
By myownalias
#363657
Mercedes dodged the bullet hear, yes the FiA f**ked up, but the principles of Mercedes also knew that it was borderline illegal and went ahead anyway, if it was all 100% above board, then why have their drivers wear plain black helmets and have all the 'privacy', I don't buy the lack of security/body guards excuse. I believe the advantage they gained from the tyre test is more than what they'd gain from the young drivers test as they had their race drivers in the cars instead of non F1 rookie drivers.

The best solution would be not punish Mercedes and let the other 9 teams (less Ferrari) have 1000km of *tyre* testing after Silverstone, then we are back on a level playing field!
User avatar
By racechick
#363659
Mercedes dodged the bullet hear, yes the FiA f**ked up, but the principles of Mercedes also knew that it was borderline illegal and went ahead anyway, if it was all 100% above board, then why have their drivers wear plain black helmets and have all the 'privacy', I don't buy the lack of security/body guards excuse. I believe the advantage they gained from the tyre test is more than what they'd gain from the young drivers test as they had their race drivers in the cars instead of non F1 rookie drivers.

The best solution would be not punish Mercedes and let the other 9 teams (less Ferrari) have 1000km of *tyre* testing after Silverstone, then we are back on a level playing field!

The other teams had their chance, they were all ask. And in the case of Ferrari they've had two tests :shrug:
#363662
do you think any team will be happy to do that if they're not allowed to use the 2013 car? they're getting the YDT soon anyway.
By vaptin
#363675
Mercedes dodged the bullet hear, yes the FiA f**ked up, but the principles of Mercedes also knew that it was borderline illegal and went ahead anyway, if it was all 100% above board, then why have their drivers wear plain black helmets and have all the 'privacy', I don't buy the lack of security/body guards excuse. I believe the advantage they gained from the tyre test is more than what they'd gain from the young drivers test as they had their race drivers in the cars instead of non F1 rookie drivers.

The best solution would be not punish Mercedes and let the other 9 teams (less Ferrari) have 1000km of *tyre* testing after Silverstone, then we are back on a level playing field!

The other teams had their chance, they were all ask. And in the case of Ferrari they've had two tests :shrug:


Erm. the other teams didn't have an equal chance, read verdict.

(vi) No other team was aware of the fact that such advantage might be, or
had been, obtained, notwithstanding the assurance which had been given
by Paul Hembery to Charlie Whiting, as set out in paragraph 5 above;
and the Tribunal notes that, when giving that assurance, Paul Hembery
had not indicated to Charlie Whiting that the notification which Pirelli
had already given to all teams in 2012 could satisfy the assurance which
was being sought


http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... IT-2013-01)-Decision%20(EN).pdf




Spanky, I disagree with you, the punishment is in line with accepting the argument Mercedes acted in good faith and broke the rules unintentionally, any team who attempts something similar won't be able to use that argument, since this tribunal ruled that Mercedes acted illegally.

I don't think Mercedes gained much of an advantage though,

And about the Ferrari tests, the Mercedes lawyer argued those tests were legal . .. and well, no one apart from on here has claimed those are illegal, Redbull are in a tighter fight with Ferrari than Mercedes lets see if they protest it.

Also, its not a loophole, or just a clarification, Mercedes were found to be in breach of the regulations, so were Perelli.

I agree with Spanky though, Charlie messed up, he gave a response he wasn't qualified to give like this one:
(ii) insofar as FIA expressed its qualified approval for the testing to be
carried out, that approval could not, and did not, vary the express
prohibition stipulated by Article 22 SR and neither Mercedes nor Pirelli
took adequate steps to ensure that the qualification was satisfied. In this
regard the Tribunal takes particular note of the fact that it was, very
properly, not submitted on behalf of Pirelli, nor was there any evidence
that, the assurance which it was not disputed Mr Paul Hembery, Pirelli
Motorsport Director, had given to Charlie Whiting (as set out in
paragraph 5 above) had in fact been acted on at any material time;


http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... IT-2013-01)-Decision%20(EN).pdf

It sounds bad, then until you read this:

(iii) the testing would, however, not have been carried out by either
Mercedes or Pirelli if that qualified approval had not been expressed by
the representatives of the FIA in the way in which it is admitted by FIA it
was;


So, Charlie again, messed up, had he worded it differently, the tribunal feels Mercedes and Perelli would have complied, although those two interepreated the wording differently to how I, Redbull and Ferrari did from the looks of things.


I think its only fair though, an investigation is made into what advantage was gained, and an effort made to equal that, even if it is done without further punishment to Mercedes.

Perelli got of very lightly, if it was their test, they ought to have done all the damn legwork. And they got it massively wrong, by claiming they weren't subject to the FIA regulations.

It's sad to see, some "fans" just care about their own team, and not the sport of the whole, and can't see how the health of the sport as a whole, is needed for the health of their team in a long term view.
User avatar
By racechick
#363676
Still think other teams had the chance to partake but chose not to. Wrong decision.
By vaptin
#363678
Still think other teams had the chance to partake but chose not to. Wrong decision.


Yeah, screw a tribunal. Let's go with your biased opinion. You'd think the same if we replaced Mercedes with Ferrari right?
User avatar
By racechick
#363683
Still think other teams had the chance to partake but chose not to. Wrong decision.


Yeah, screw a tribunal. Let's go with your biased opinion. You'd think the same if we replaced Mercedes with Ferrari right?


Well Ferrari did test. They just didnt get called to a tribunal. As tribunals go this one was way way above previous ones, so no I'd not say screw the tribunal, I think the tribunal did well in the circumstances. I didn't say the wrong decision was the one made by the tribunal. It was wrong by the teams who opted not to help Pirelli, so they can't cry now. They were asked to help. All teams were asked to help. Mercedes said yes.
By vaptin
#363692
Still think other teams had the chance to partake but chose not to. Wrong decision.


Yeah, screw a tribunal. Let's go with your biased opinion. You'd think the same if we replaced Mercedes with Ferrari right?


Well Ferrari did test. They just didnt get called to a tribunal. As tribunals go this one was way way above previous ones, so no I'd not say screw the tribunal, I think the tribunal did well in the circumstances. I didn't say the wrong decision was the one made by the tribunal. It was wrong by the teams who opted not to help Pirelli, so they can't cry now. They were asked to help. All teams were asked to help. Mercedes said yes.


No, the tribunal is disputing what you said, the teams weren't informed in the manner they were meant to be. Even if it was true, the tribunal should be thanking the teams who said no, seeing as the Mercedes test was a breach of the rules, so the teams can cry.
User avatar
By racechick
#363697
The teams weren't informed that Mercedes had accepted the offer to test, but they were informed that Pirelli wanted testers. Mercedes accepted,the other teams, apart from Ferrari, didn't.
By vaptin
#363698
The teams weren't informed that Mercedes had accepted the offer to test, but they were informed that Pirelli wanted testers. Mercedes accepted,the other teams, apart from Ferrari, didn't.


Mercedes accepted then carried out an illegal test then. I think that is the cause of the complaints, which is why no team complained about the Ferrari test.
User avatar
By racechick
#363704
The teams weren't informed that Mercedes had accepted the offer to test, but they were informed that Pirelli wanted testers. Mercedes accepted,the other teams, apart from Ferrari, didn't.


Mercedes accepted then carried out an illegal test then. I think that is the cause of the complaints, which is why no team complained about the Ferrari test.

Ferrari had illegalities about it, just different ones to Mercedes. Ferrari tested at a track directly before a GP. That's against the rules. And they ran the test, rather than Pirelli. Go figure.
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