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#102874
Let me make it blunt: Hamilton will do anything to get the best result he can. ANY MEANS NECESSARY

Yes I think you are correct...


To be honest things need to change, the team I support completely without wavering dedication seem to be fighting battles they shouldn't need to fight damaging themselves and letting their fans down, this is not right! It's not right that fans should feel ashamed of the team that they support, but this is the case they deserve better and need better! These days it seems their motto is "Win at all costs" I think it is about time they realise that some costs are to high and that the ends do not always justify the means! These are dark times for McLaren and they need to find the light soon.
#102877
When you were in that situation, were you the number 1 man in your field and the most valuable asset your employer had?


Possibly?

Really? Cos I gotta tell you mate, when you're the Lewis Hamilton of your field...You can do what you like and your employer can like it or lump it. What was Dave going to do? Sack the World Champion for refusing to cheat? Have Martin dock Lewis's paycheck for not being a team-player? Neither's going to happen and the latter's a pretty crummy deterrent anyway.
#102878
To be honest things need to change, the team I support completely without wavering dedication seem to be fighting battles they shouldn't need to fight damaging themselves and letting their fans down, this is not right! It's not right that fans should feel ashamed of the team that they support, but this is the case they deserve better and need better! These days it seems their motto is "Win at all costs" I think it is about time they realise that some costs are to high and that the ends do not always justify the means! These are dark times for McLaren and they need to find the light soon.

I can't agree with that. McLaren were wrong in the spy scandal and were wrong last weekend, but you need to look at the whole picture. Spying and not telling the full story has always gone on in Formula One. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it is. McLaren are really just the first team to get done for it, in this instance in a completely avoidable moment of madness. And the team's attempts to limit the damage were equally chaotic. Whitmarsh, who was on holiday (!) completely failed to appreciate the seriousness of the situation once it became apparent in the middle of the week.
#102882
When you were in that situation, were you the number 1 man in your field and the most valuable asset your employer had?


Possibly?

Really? Cos I gotta tell you mate, when you're the Lewis Hamilton of your field...You can do what you like and your employer can like it or lump it. What was Dave going to do? Sack the World Champion for refusing to cheat? Have Martin dock Lewis's paycheck for not being a team-player? Neither's going to happen and the latter's a pretty crummy deterrent anyway.


Yeh but hes a driver and there are people above him, that hes worked under for some time.

Also how's the rest of the team going to react if they find out that he showed up Ryan?
#102885
When you were in that situation, were you the number 1 man in your field and the most valuable asset your employer had?


Possibly?

Really? Cos I gotta tell you mate, when you're the Lewis Hamilton of your field...You can do what you like and your employer can like it or lump it. What was Dave going to do? Sack the World Champion for refusing to cheat? Have Martin dock Lewis's paycheck for not being a team-player? Neither's going to happen and the latter's a pretty crummy deterrent anyway.


Yeh but hes a driver and there are people above him, that hes worked under for some time.

Also how's the rest of the team going to react if they find out that he showed up Ryan?

I wouldn't say that a Racing Director is "above" the Star Driver in any meaningful sense. Maybe officially

As for how the team would react...I'd have to hope they'd be horrified their man decided of his own accord to lie to the FiA and tried to con Lewis into it too (Which is highly implausible by the way). "Showing him up" is a completely minor concern compared to knowingly and willingly lying to the FiA
#102887
To be honest things need to change, the team I support completely without wavering dedication seem to be fighting battles they shouldn't need to fight damaging themselves and letting their fans down, this is not right! It's not right that fans should feel ashamed of the team that they support, but this is the case they deserve better and need better! These days it seems their motto is "Win at all costs" I think it is about time they realise that some costs are to high and that the ends do not always justify the means! These are dark times for McLaren and they need to find the light soon.

I can't agree with that. McLaren were wrong in the spy scandal and were wrong last weekend, but you need to look at the whole picture. Spying and not telling the full story has always gone on in Formula One. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it is. McLaren are really just the first team to get done for it, in this instance in a completely avoidable moment of madness.

I just get the feeling that McLaren are taking it too far now they need to play clean after the last couple of years the reputation of LH and McLaren is in tatters it has got to the point where they cannot put a toe wrong without getting caught out and every time they do get caught out it hurts the team more than the time before now they may have had to "sack" one of their top personnel.
#102889
When you were in that situation, were you the number 1 man in your field and the most valuable asset your employer had?


Possibly?

Really? Cos I gotta tell you mate, when you're the Lewis Hamilton of your field...You can do what you like and your employer can like it or lump it. What was Dave going to do? Sack the World Champion for refusing to cheat? Have Martin dock Lewis's paycheck for not being a team-player? Neither's going to happen and the latter's a pretty crummy deterrent anyway.


Yeh but hes a driver and there are people above him, that hes worked under for some time.

Also how's the rest of the team going to react if they find out that he showed up Ryan?

I wouldn't say that a Racing Director is "above" the Star Driver in any meaningful sense. Maybe officially

As for how the team would react...I'd have to hope they'd be horrified their man decided of his own accord to lie to the FiA and tried to con Lewis into it too (Which is highly implausible by the way). "Showing him up" is a completely minor concern compared to knowingly and willingly lying to the FiA


Plus LH would have had the facts on his side, the press interview he had given on his side, the radio communication looked at by the FIA on his side - McLaren could and would have only given him a pat on his shoulders for being honest and saving the team from disgrace. Alas, it didn't happen! :banghead:
#102892
When you were in that situation, were you the number 1 man in your field and the most valuable asset your employer had?


Possibly?

Really? Cos I gotta tell you mate, when you're the Lewis Hamilton of your field...You can do what you like and your employer can like it or lump it. What was Dave going to do? Sack the World Champion for refusing to cheat? Have Martin dock Lewis's paycheck for not being a team-player? Neither's going to happen and the latter's a pretty crummy deterrent anyway.


Yeh but hes a driver and there are people above him, that hes worked under for some time.

Also how's the rest of the team going to react if they find out that he showed up Ryan?

I wouldn't say that a Racing Director is "above" the Star Driver in any meaningful sense. Maybe officially

As for how the team would react...I'd have to hope they'd be horrified their man decided of his own accord to lie to the FiA and tried to con Lewis into it too (Which is highly implausible by the way). "Showing him up" is a completely minor concern compared to knowingly and willingly lying to the FiA


Yeh but like i've said unless you've been there i don't think you can say what you'd do.
#102894
Some people seem to be basing their views on the story that Hamilton was 'mislead'. Anybody who doesn't think that sounds slightly suspicious needs a reality check.


Well what do you think Happened? like i've said i'm not sure but i can understand him being pressured into it, if that was the case

Hamilton's shown throughout his racing career he is extremely competative and will do anything to get the best result for himself. On top of that, he's a grown, mature man. I really do not find it convincing, therefore, that Hamilton was 'mislead' like a lamb by Ryan. Although it's only my opinion and not a proven fact, it seems more likely that this plan was concocted by the two of them somehow, borne out of frustration with the unclear regulations, botched communication between the pitwall and Hamilton and the inability to get in touch with race control. After the scandal emerged, McLaren stuck to their usual policy of protecting their drivers no matter what and took the blame on themselves. The team had to be seen to be taking the matter seriously by the FIA, so Ryan was singled out as the instigator of the lie.


A grown mature man?? He's 24 years old!! I feel desperately sorry for Ryan here and dont believe he thought it through , he was trying to right a wrong that was partly his fault. But he was he employer here and by way the most experienced. Lewis should have stood up to him and he sure as hell knows that now. Are you suggestuing this was Lewis' idea?? Why did he tell one thing to the press and then change it? If he had decided to lie on his own he would have done so from the outset. His mistake was in not standing up for his convictions.
#102896
Aye.

Well "aye" to what? I said lots of things.
#102898
Some people seem to be basing their views on the story that Hamilton was 'mislead'. Anybody who doesn't think that sounds slightly suspicious needs a reality check.


Well what do you think Happened? like i've said i'm not sure but i can understand him being pressured into it, if that was the case

Hamilton's shown throughout his racing career he is extremely competative and will do anything to get the best result for himself. On top of that, he's a grown, mature man. I really do not find it convincing, therefore, that Hamilton was 'mislead' like a lamb by Ryan. Although it's only my opinion and not a proven fact, it seems more likely that this plan was concocted by the two of them somehow, borne out of frustration with the unclear regulations, botched communication between the pitwall and Hamilton and the inability to get in touch with race control. After the scandal emerged, McLaren stuck to their usual policy of protecting their drivers no matter what and took the blame on themselves. The team had to be seen to be taking the matter seriously by the FIA, so Ryan was singled out as the instigator of the lie.


A grown mature man?? He's 24 years old!! I feel desperately sorry for Ryan here and dont believe he thought it through , he was trying to right a wrong that was partly his fault. But he was he employer here and by way the most experienced. Lewis should have stood up to him and he sure as hell knows that now. Are you suggestuing this was Lewis' idea?? Why did he tell one thing to the press and then change it? If he had decided to lie on his own he would have done so from the outset. His mistake was in not standing up for his convictions.

You have to accept it was moronic. It doesn't matter what pressure Dave put on him (And let's be clear, Dave is probably just a scapegoat for the team as a whole or Lewis himself) Lewis knew what he had said. Someone who nominally outranks him saying "Do this" doesn't lose him the human abilities of thought and speech. He's either a moronic cheater or a complete idiot. There is no explanation which paints him favorably.
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