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#233639
I don't think Karun Chandhock will be FI bound as about nine months ago I read an interview with Vijay Mallya where he stated that he didn't rate Karun and wouldn't hire an Indian driver just because of his nationality. Good on Karun for telling HRT where to stick it; rightfully so after the way he was treated by HRT last season!

True, but then what self-respecting F1 Driver would enter into the Faustian Bargain of driving for Toro Rosso if they had a choice?


Well Torro Rosso have shown that they can turn kids into world champions, whether it was any of their doing or not, Vettel gave them some integrity.

But which one of the current Torro Rosso boys are going to move aside?
#233642
'I'm delighted that Narain is able to make his F1 comeback with HRT and I wish him every success in the coming year.
India should be proud that it will be fully represented in its inaugural Grand Prix by an Indian team and now an Indian driver.

'We have spoken to Narain over a period of time about returning and it just wasn't the right time for us in this stage of our development.
We're currently closing our driver line-up and I'm really excited about what's to come.'

- Dr. Vijay Mallya

http://www.facebook.com/notes/force-ind ... 1047103892,
#233652
I don't think Karun Chandhock will be FI bound as about nine months ago I read an interview with Vijay Mallya where he stated that he didn't rate Karun and wouldn't hire an Indian driver just because of his nationality. Good on Karun for telling HRT where to stick it; rightfully so after the way he was treated by HRT last season!

True, but then what self-respecting F1 Driver would enter into the Faustian Bargain of driving for Toro Rosso if they had a choice?


Well Torro Rosso have shown that they can turn kids into world champions, whether it was any of their doing or not, Vettel gave them some integrity.

But which one of the current Torro Rosso boys are going to move aside?


Jamie has potential, I think Sebastian.B was weak this year.
#233698
I don't think Karun Chandhock will be FI bound as about nine months ago I read an interview with Vijay Mallya where he stated that he didn't rate Karun and wouldn't hire an Indian driver just because of his nationality. Good on Karun for telling HRT where to stick it; rightfully so after the way he was treated by HRT last season!

True, but then what self-respecting F1 Driver would enter into the Faustian Bargain of driving for Toro Rosso if they had a choice?

Considering he drove for HRT last (first half) season; driving a Toro Rosso is a big step up; at least there is a chance of points whereas there is no chance in a HRT!
#233700
I don't think Karun Chandhock will be FI bound as about nine months ago I read an interview with Vijay Mallya where he stated that he didn't rate Karun and wouldn't hire an Indian driver just because of his nationality. Good on Karun for telling HRT where to stick it; rightfully so after the way he was treated by HRT last season!

True, but then what self-respecting F1 Driver would enter into the Faustian Bargain of driving for Toro Rosso if they had a choice?


Well Torro Rosso have shown that they can turn kids into world champions, whether it was any of their doing or not, Vettel gave them some integrity.

But which one of the current Torro Rosso boys are going to move aside?


Jamie has potential, I think Sebastian.B was weak this year.

they both are crap. so week line-up i wasnt expecting. Karun for me hits them both. However Jaime is still very young
#233715
I don't think Karun Chandhock will be FI bound as about nine months ago I read an interview with Vijay Mallya where he stated that he didn't rate Karun and wouldn't hire an Indian driver just because of his nationality. Good on Karun for telling HRT where to stick it; rightfully so after the way he was treated by HRT last season!

True, but then what self-respecting F1 Driver would enter into the Faustian Bargain of driving for Toro Rosso if they had a choice?

Considering he drove for HRT last (first half) season; driving a Toro Rosso is a big step up; at least there is a chance of points whereas there is no chance in a HRT!

You're missing the point. HRT is irrelevant, it's between Toro Rosso and Force India. And Toro Rosso is career poison unless you're Sebastian Vettel. NOBODY else has made it work. Not even Sebastien Bourdais, and he was the best the American racing scene, and FRANCE - the birthplace of the sport - had to offer. It's a toxic environment, with a not-particularly-quick car that the Lotus will almost undoubtedly run rings around. Nobody, regardless of nationality or personal animosity, should pick Toro Rosso over Force India. Nobody with a choice should ever pick Toro Rosso.
By sgh
#233720
So as I thought, Senna doesn't have a place, two pay drivers for HRT then, I hope that they don't make it inside the 107% qualifying rule. In my opinion, HRT have become a complete joke, a fairground ride for rich Japanase and those with lots of sponsorship money to bring. I believe that the FIA should now act; have to pass a financial test to prove they have funds to pay two drivers and run a team for a whole season. Other teams were not given the 13th place on the grid because they couldn't show they had the financial clout to compete, so why not use the same rule for existing teams? If HRT disappears no-one would even notice, I can see them being mobile chicanes next season!


i think this is the issue at hand, in reality. i was reading through this thread hoping someone had mentioned it.

it's not really sustainable as a team to take money for drives at the cost of not qualifying for races. how does the team expect to progress if they can't even run on sunday? i mean this both in a technical sense and a sponsorship/popularity/image sense (which is of paramount importance in F1).
#233725
Maybe teams can swap "outside 107%" race weekends for a days testing


:clap:

Although I still maintain this is unlikely to happen often if at all, this is a good idea.
#233731
I don't think Karun Chandhock will be FI bound as about nine months ago I read an interview with Vijay Mallya where he stated that he didn't rate Karun and wouldn't hire an Indian driver just because of his nationality. Good on Karun for telling HRT where to stick it; rightfully so after the way he was treated by HRT last season!

True, but then what self-respecting F1 Driver would enter into the Faustian Bargain of driving for Toro Rosso if they had a choice?

Considering he drove for HRT last (first half) season; driving a Toro Rosso is a big step up; at least there is a chance of points whereas there is no chance in a HRT!

You're missing the point. HRT is irrelevant, it's between Toro Rosso and Force India. And Toro Rosso is career poison unless you're Sebastian Vettel. NOBODY else has made it work. Not even Sebastien Bourdais, and he was the best the American racing scene, and FRANCE - the birthplace of the sport - had to offer. It's a toxic environment, with a not-particularly-quick car that the Lotus will almost undoubtedly run rings around. Nobody, regardless of nationality or personal animosity, should pick Toro Rosso over Force India. Nobody with a choice should ever pick Toro Rosso.


I think that is buemi or alguersauri are signed up for the red bull senior team, then i believe it will be when webber retires and that then would make vettel undispted number 1 with out an ''inconvienence'' as mark decribed himself in 2010, and i agree that force india are now the better team out of the two
#233750
I think Force India are looking at Hulkenburg and Pual di Reista (sp).

At least in a Torro Rosso he has a shot at showing potential that other teams might pick up on.
#233851
I don't think Karun Chandhock will be FI bound as about nine months ago I read an interview with Vijay Mallya where he stated that he didn't rate Karun and wouldn't hire an Indian driver just because of his nationality. Good on Karun for telling HRT where to stick it; rightfully so after the way he was treated by HRT last season!

True, but then what self-respecting F1 Driver would enter into the Faustian Bargain of driving for Toro Rosso if they had a choice?

Considering he drove for HRT last (first half) season; driving a Toro Rosso is a big step up; at least there is a chance of points whereas there is no chance in a HRT!

You're missing the point. HRT is irrelevant, it's between Toro Rosso and Force India. And Toro Rosso is career poison unless you're Sebastian Vettel. NOBODY else has made it work. Not even Sebastien Bourdais, and he was the best the American racing scene, and FRANCE - the birthplace of the sport - had to offer. It's a toxic environment, with a not-particularly-quick car that the Lotus will almost undoubtedly run rings around. Nobody, regardless of nationality or personal animosity, should pick Toro Rosso over Force India. Nobody with a choice should ever pick Toro Rosso.

Yes I did miss your point but I stand by my comments; Toro Rosso is a better drive than HRT; being in a race seat; even if it's a Toro Rosso is better than a testing role or no role at all!
#233852
Yeah I don't get why Toro Rosso is a career killer? Only Sebastian made it true, but that's because he performed exceptionally well and stood out from everyone else. No one else has done that.

Sorry, but an opportunity to drive for a junior team and prove yourself to potentially get yourself in the best car on the grid...is never a bad deal. Your 'point' doesn't make sense.
#233865
Toro Rosso isn't toxic to a drivers career that's nonsense.

Vitantonio Liuzzi was given two seasons did ok but not great, now drives for FI.

Scott Speed was a terrible driver, was dropped midway through his second season yet Red Bull still gave him a drive in America.

Sébastien Bourdais should have matched or at least come close to Vettel in 08 but was horribly blown away by his rookie team mate and made stupid mistakes. Was given a second season but was being out matched by his new rookie team mate (Buemi) and was publicly critical of the team and car. Dropped.

Sébastien Buemi impressed in his first season I think but has had a difficult 2010 and didn't build on the promise shown in his first season. It is questionable whether he will do another year with Toro Rosso given the likes of Hulkenberg and Di Resta are looking for drives.

Jaime Alguersuari was thoughly impressive in 2010 during his first full season. Pulled off some great overtaking manoeuvre's throughout the season. It is a pity he didn't score more points. He's not confirmed for 2011 yet but I think he will be there.

Toxic to a drivers career? :bs: The drivers they have dropped were not cut out for F1 and any drivers that didn't have their contract renewed had simply disappointed.
#233866
Yeah I don't get why Toro Rosso is a career killer? Only Sebastian made it true, but that's because he performed exceptionally well and stood out from everyone else. No one else has done that.

Sorry, but an opportunity to drive for a junior team and prove yourself to potentially get yourself in the best car on the grid...is never a bad deal. Your 'point' doesn't make sense.


I see what you are saying, and to some extent agree, however in F1 where we are talking about sometimes a difference of 1-2 seconds between say 1st and 18th on the grid, the driver is to some extent dependent on the expertise and motivation of the team around him. The mechanics and engineers can be the difference between a car being able to perform well or perform poorly (driving at 180mph, if there is even a slight flaw in the set up of the car it can have a massive effect on the efficiency it operates at). I still maintain that Bourdais got a very very very raw deal at the team (did I mention that I think it was a very raw deal?), and indeed I have detected that pretty much since Berger's last few months there the atmosphere has been very sour within the team for whatever reasons I am not sure. I think there was more to Berger getting out of that team than meets the eye - he is too nice and genuine a person I think to have put up with some of the behaviour at management level that was going there.

It's my belief that up until Berger left that team a couple of years ago, it was him that was making it work, and I had a real soft spot for the team until it became clear (which it was - very clear to anybody watching) that the management team were having a very negative and constricting effect on the entire team from top to bottom. I honestly think a lot of people can't have been paying much attention during that time if they couldn't see it, because it wasn't even slightly hard to spot.

Is it really any surprise how well Vettel did at Torro Rosso (?) as at that time there were clear, open and definite links between them and Red Bull, and Vettel (as has been indicated, though not conclusively, many times) was the Red Bull favourite and protige. Don't be so naive as to think he was not given a massive amount more support at that team than any other driver in terms of those on his engineering team, resources etc. Of course this is not evidenced, but then it wouldn't be would it? It would have been all very clandestine.

Personally - and it is of course my own personal opinion - I believe that in theory you are completely right that shining at a lower level team is a great way to prove yourself as belonging in F1 and deserving of a better race seat. However as with most statements there are qualifications and exceptions. In this case I would say 'except for anyone who has the misfortune to end up at Torro Rosso'... the term 'toxic' is being thrown around right now relating to the latest tragedy to befall the US, and this is a very apt term, and one that I have used for the last couple of years to describe the atmosphere at Torro Rosso.

All just my own personal opinion based on what I've seen, read and looked into of course.

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