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[samie]

..eeing Alonso force Massa into a mistake or out brake him into a turn and take the lead by earning it and doing it all without needless contact. not take the lead simply because the telemetry indicated he was faster

Alonso would have forced Massa into a error, he has done that with the best, including Hamilton. There is no way on earth that Alonso would have let massa win. Massa knew that and just chickened out and let Alonso pass. Massa is the only one that should be fined, because Alonso would never let him get close enough for that to happen. Alonso is faster than you can also mean, step on it boy! We are paying you big money and you two have the same car. Alonso put 4 secs on Massa, why didnt Massa do that? Massa has lost it as a pilot, he has been absolutely irrelevent this championship, and he has one of the best cars. Vettel went after alonso, thats the only reason he was first.

Massa is making ferrari look bad, he is no driver anymore.

[vaptin]

^What they heck have you been smoking? Give me some!

I'm a Ferrari fan and it was a coded message.

[Fact Man]

Here we go again. The same old whiners singing the same old tired song. They didn't have a problem when McLaren harped on about saving fuel...which was openly acknowledged in the press as being team orders for Button to not attempt another pass on Hammy. If you don't want it to be a team sport, then race one car per team. Otherwise, this is the reality of racing. All racing. The team is the important thing, as Massa said in the interview afterwards.

When Red Bull let their two drivers 'work it out' on the track, they quite possibly cost themselves a championship. Two team mates, in fairly equal cars with one of them being faster but not overwhelmingly so....trying to fight it out on track is stupid. That's right....it's blatantly, amateurish and stupid. You don't bang up your own team cars trying to force a pass when it is clear which car is faster. All Massa had to do was match Alonso's pace and the team wouldn't have asked him to move over. But Alonso dropped three seconds back and then reeled him in in what, 3 laps? That showed the team his pace and the team didn't have a choice but to put the fast guy in front. Massa couldn't even hold on to his draft. Alonso left him for dead....after following in his dirty air and scrubbing his tires for so long. Massa didn't have an answer for Alonso today...which is a shame...I would have loved to see Massa on the top step. Vettel was all over Massa shortly thereafter...should Alonso have slowed up even further to hold Vettel off of Massa?

The fastest guy won the race. Isn't that what racing is supposed to be? Everyone condemned Vettel and Red Bull for being such idiots and they still talk about how the team isn't 'old and wise' enough to have properly handled Vettel wanting by Webber. Well folks, you saw today how 'old and wise' handle that situation. The faster car takes the lead and leaves the slower car to deal with the hounds nipping at his heels. That is how F1 has been since before most of these complainers were born. It's a team sport. You don't chance ruining millions in sponsorship, points and certainly car parts by going wheel to wheel with you team mate. That would be just stupid. McLaren reeled their boys in when they did it...and they took 1st and 2nd. Red Bull did not...and they lost BOTH the driving and constructors championship lead when the two drivers collided.

I can't blame Ferrari for avoiding that situation. Massa is desperate to prove something about himself that isn't true. He has NEVER been the equal of his teammate...no matter who that teammate is, yet he is desperate to prove that he is. You don't let two team mates battle it out when one of them is that desperate. That would be....well....Red Bull.

Hey billindenver, I think you need to be cloned so we can have more reasonable voices on this forum.
I am so glad that there is someone out there with common sense.
I totally agree with what you said. When Mcl calls it "fuel saving" it is all fine because they used code words. But when Ferrari does it so clearly to the world to see it is called cheating.
I agree with the last section. Massa never was, is or will be #1. He only shined when Kimi gave up on F1. Now that he has FA with him, his true level is showing again.
Whitmarsh said he wants to talk to Ferrari privately about the incident. I guess he is going to teach Ferrari their secret "code words" for team orders

[Fact Man]

was it team orders in Turkey when hamilton was assured by the team that jenson wouldnt pass? there by making it ok to go into a fuel saving mode?

my fave quote of the day was christian horner calling it the most blatant infraction of team orders hes seen, as if we have forgotten the radio transmission "vettel is coming do not obstruct him" that mark "failed" to hear right before he collided with him.

so how about we cut the crap and admit that all teams use team orders. or would you rather that next time the radio transmission be " We believe you may be short on fuel switch to engine position blah blah blah"? or are any of you really naive enough to believe those guys are cheats but my guys never would do that?

NO NO NO my friend McCheat does not cheat...come on you know it

(I'm being sarcastic there )

[samie]

^What they heck have you been smoking? Give me some!

I'm a Ferrari fan and it was a coded message.

It was a coded message because Alonso was going faster, had massa been going faster would he have heard the same message? What is coded about saying alonso is going faster when alonso IS going faster? Had Massa been 4 seconds ahead and faster than alonso, there would be no coded message saying massa, slowdown for fernando.

I am an alonso fan, and I know Massa would have made a mistake before the end of the race had alonso presured. Massa knew that so he chickend out making his whole team look bad. No one ordered him to go slower he did that on his own. No coding here sorry.

[What's Burning?]

It would appear that changing opinions in this forum is as rare as overtaking on a Tilke built F1 track.

[vaptin]

^What they heck have you been smoking? Give me some!

I'm a Ferrari fan and it was a coded message.

It was a coded message because Alonso was going faster, had massa been going faster would he have heard the same message? What is coded about saying alonso is going faster when alonso IS going faster? Had Massa been 4 seconds ahead and faster than alonso, there would be no coded message saying massa, slowdown for fernando.

I am an alonso fan, and I know Massa would have made a mistake before the end of the race had alonso presured. Massa knew that so he chickend out making his whole team look bad. No one ordered him to go slower he did that on his own. No coding here sorry.

What are next weeks euromillion numbers?

The message meant, let Alonso through, why else would Smedely say sorry? He would've told Massa to chase after Alonso if it was a mistake.

Also, whatsburning, what do you mean?

[What's Burning?]

it means that I'm done with this topic and I'm looking forward to the remainder of the season.

[f1ea]

So, what's the general consensus?
Was it bad or was it good?


Alonso could have challenged. In fact, alonso has challenged Massa, one time he passed him on the pit entry, most the haters say that was bad. I'm sure the ferrari bosses almost got a heart attack. Massa once got a flat tire in a battle with Alonso, ended up in last place. Webber and Vettel took eachother out, and it would happen again. The Mclaren boys almost took eachother out had the team not given the order to stay put. All that rumble is unnecessary stupidity. the team will work for the best of the team. Vettel could have caught Alonso, and from what happened on L1 i think they definitely needed to avoid that. If Massa is in a disfavourable position, sh!t happens.

I know you all like football (soccer), but in baseball very often the pitcher gives an intentional base on balls. A batter very often does a sacrifice bunt or sacrifice fly. Because its a team. They are playing for the best of the team. In basketball, the players do what the coach tells them to, if they don't they take the bench.

Massa was struggling on the hard tires. Massa has struggled all season, and is out of the championship. in fact, even Alonso is out. they are only hoping to salvage some points and keep it closer. Next time, Alonso should make the move though. if it takes both out, the hell with it. the team will hate it, so will Massa and of course all the Ferrari unfans will love it. Funny thing... Ferrari should make their unfans and competition, very happy like Red Bull did.

Massa was upset LONG before he let alonso pass. if you watched the Q press conference Massa was in no mood either, and there had been nothing funky. He's not been happy all season. Why? because he knows he's struggling. Tough pill to swallow. it doesnt mean he'll struggle forever. He still has the confidence from the bosses and got a contract extension under such struggle, fortunate and good for him i think.

You want to avoid team orders: have no teams. Simple as that.

Kimi was one of the best F1 drivers. He struggled massively in the yr Massa shone. Schumacher also, and is struggling now. Do anyone of you crying over Massa's ego ever gave a fk about Kimi when he struggled or Schumacher now that he's getting pounded? No. You'd rather see them lose if it means your favourite team or driver cashed the points.

Interestingly, now, you all want extraordinary punishment... real relevant punishment, right?
How come not when ferrari got dealt the sh!t in Valencia and Silverstone?

Get real.

Oh... have a read:
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/24448.html

I think this is all.

[billindenver]

Feels good to follow your cheating little rat,hey billy,lol.

He isn't my rat there little one. I criticize him plenty for his whining. And for a guy who is in love with a driver who had to call a press conference to admit he was caught cheating by the stewards...you do appear to be the pot calling the kettle black. Your boy was caught, asked and denied it, was played the audio tape of him cheating...which he then denied again, was brought back to another meeting where he admitted he had cheated, lied about it, then lied again in the face of overwhelming proof. There are numerous examples of your boy benefiting from team orders as well....so why not just rail on about how much you hate Alonso and leave it at that.....this crap you spew about team orders etc is so transparent its pathetic.

You appear to be so filled with hatred that all you can resort to is name calling, childish antics. Perhaps you should unplug once in a while.

[Ineluke]

^What they heck have you been smoking? Give me some!

I'm a Ferrari fan and it was a coded message.

It was a coded message because Alonso was going faster, had massa been going faster would he have heard the same message? What is coded about saying alonso is going faster when alonso IS going faster? Had Massa been 4 seconds ahead and faster than alonso, there would be no coded message saying massa, slowdown for fernando.

I am an alonso fan, and I know Massa would have made a mistake before the end of the race had alonso presured. Massa knew that so he chickend out making his whole team look bad. No one ordered him to go slower he did that on his own. No coding here sorry.

you can pretend otherwise but your filthy cheating rat hero has been caught out along with his team. The rat was moaning on the radio at the start of the race. If your stinking rat cheater hero was that fast then he should of took massa without his team orders to massa.
By saying their was no message you must have your ears plugs in or be saying that all these f1 pro and reporters are wrong and you are right, i don't think anyone who isn't a alonso rat lover.
Your stinking cheater hero has come on top and nothing you can do or your alonso rat followers on this forum can do.

[samie]

It would appear that changing opinions in this forum is as rare as overtaking on a Tilke built F1 track.

No trying to convince anyone as minds are already set. I am just trying to be fair to the facts. Having Fernando Alonso 1 sec behind for twenty laps is not a pretty site. It would take a really good pilot and same good luck to hold him back there. FA is best known for forcing mistakes on such situations with some of the great drivers including hamilton several times. Massa is certanly not one of the solid drivers, lets face it.

The real fear was vettel, or a crash of the ferraries, not fernando. I dont think ferrari asked Massa to slow down, they just pointed that fact to him. Massa chickened out and decided to let alonso by instead of going faster.

Massa lead the race, so it should have never been an issue had he gonne the right pace for that car that day. Massa had a chance to prove he was faster than alonso, insteadinstead he has put his whole team to shame making a drama out of his slow driving. Why would fernando even get close to him with the same car? Cant see that happening with any other pilots in F1.

[f1ea]

Massa lead the race, so it should have never been an issue had he gonne the right pace for that car that day. Massa had a chance to prove he was faster than alonso, instead he has put his whole team to shame making a drama out of his slow driving. Why would fernando even get close to him with the same car? Cant see that happening with any other pilots in F1.

Ouch.
i won't say I agree because that's rather tough... But it is true.
Alonso caught up, on demand. Push Massa to a mistake or a take out would have been even worse for Massa!

[Ineluke]

Feels good to follow your cheating little rat,hey billy,lol.

He isn't my rat there little one. I criticize him plenty for his whining. And for a guy who is in love with a driver who had to call a press conference to admit he was caught cheating by the stewards...you do appear to be the pot calling the kettle black. Your boy was caught, asked and denied it, was played the audio tape of him cheating...which he then denied again, was brought back to another meeting where he admitted he had cheated, lied about it, then lied again in the face of overwhelming proof. There are numerous examples of your boy benefiting from team orders as well....so why not just rail on about how much you hate Alonso and leave it at that.....this crap you spew about team orders etc is so transparent its pathetic.

You appear to be so filled with hatred that all you can resort to is name calling, childish antics. Perhaps you should unplug once in a while.

Sorry billyboy but this is about the cheating rat alonso, nothing to do with lewis,he was to busy handing button his bottom after giving him a head start.
Nah, this time it's eyebrows who is in the hot seat, seems many can handle that.
The rat cheats and that's what happens when you get caught. It was long overdue though, what with his sudden memory lost when his team mate was told to crash his car.
Not this time billyboy, Alonso eyebrows is on top,lol.
Who is name calling,your name isn't alonso is it? I am calling alonso a rat.

[richindarlo]

In my opinion, he has now won 2 races that have been controversial after the event, and have lead to major questions about the integrity of the sport and allegations of cheating. Perhaps we should start looking at Alonso, and not just the teams he is driving for