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[Jim Riven]

I am not a Mclaren fan, or rather it would be more accurate to say that I am a supporter of multiple F1 teams.

But look at it this way.
Jean Todt manufactured a number of results through team orders, disrespecting the very notion of a fair contest, this man will now be asked to preside over the ruling body if both he and Max get their way.

Team orders were legal and had been so for 50 years. 7 years ago when the new rule was brought in is probably half a lifetime for many internet experts but those of us who have been racing cars and watching others do it for several decades don't tend to get all emotional over team orders. Bicycle racing has team orders. Marathon running has team orders. Olympic long distance has team orders. Team sports have team orders. If you want that done away with...have each team field ONE car.

I could do that, next year as HEAD OF THE FIA I will implement that rule, thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious.

Or I could as a long-standing F1 fan prefer it both team orders and the people behind them were part of F1 history.

Sorry... just in case I need to add this, I would prefer it if Ari Vatanen was head of FIA as I would like to see the sport grow and not face another few years of media backed speculation on the honesty of F1.

[texasmr2]

I could do that, next year as HEAD OF THE FIA I will implement that rule, thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious.

Dont take it wrong if you don't get my vote, heck I would not even vote for myself!!!

Or I could as a long-standing F1 fan prefer it both team orders and the people behind them were part of F1 history.

It will be a sad day when F1 no longer exist . I personaly have no issue's with team order's if they are in the best interest of the team and their outcome in the WDC/WCC.

Sorry... just in case I need to add this, I would prefer it if Ari Vatanen was head of FIA as I would like to see the sport grow and not face another few years of media backed speculation on the honesty of F1.

I agree with you, I want to see a F1 outsider take control so we do not have to constantly deal with all the 'insider speculation's of showing favor' that exist now. We, the member's of this forum, I believe have a firm and logical grasp on what need's to happen to save the sport that we all love so much.

[Jim Riven]

It will be a sad day when F1 no longer exist . I personaly have no issue's with team order's if they are in the best interest of the team and their outcome in the WDC/WCC.

While I can see the obvious role some form of "team orders" may play in the WCC I believe any driver worth his salt would (if it didn't compromise his race/season) work towards this without the need to be ordered to do so.

For the WDC... its another matter, Take Rubens this season as a prime example, people are willing him to win it, backing him as never before, "this may be his last chance" is a cry I hear all to often.
Yes it may well be his last chance, but only because he spent so long in a team where his only role was to prop up his team-mate.

[texasmr2]

Very good point's .

[bud]

Bill end of the day you must have been hidden in a desert not to know of the stuff that Todt did whilst at Ferrari. alot of it is years old now and frankly i and i bet others are not going to cypher through news sites just to please your ego! I dont care that you find nothing wrong with Todt but thats your problem not anyone elses on here so i dont see why we should bother.

The infamous "everyone knows that" argument! Oh, well that sure put me in my place. Funny...how "everyone" as defined by this group means everyone who is a die hard McLaren fan. Perhaps I've been 'hidden in a desert' as you put it and just missed all of the Todt cheating scandals....or perhaps you have been living on the internet so long you only hear the 'news' as put out by other McLaren fans who also never unplug. For reference I did a google search on "Jean Todt cheats cheated lies" and found nothing. I then did a search on the same thing with Lewis Hamilton and another on Ron Dennis...and found TONS of stories. Rather odd don't you think? I have been keeping an open mind here, hoping you guys would give me something concrete from which I could also hate Jean Todt....but as it's been nearly a week and you've produced nothing but 'everyone knows that' as your proof...I'm starting to think this is a simple case of those who have been caught multiple times cheating trying like hell to get some mud to stick to their rival.

As I said, I'm very willing to hate Jean Todt...just give me a reason why, other than he has spent a career bitch slapping McLaren around on the track.

google what a detective!!

you clearly have no idea of Todts political power within the FIA during his time to get his and Ferrari's way. Go google that.

[EwanM]

Vatanen seeks court help for election

By Jonathan Noble Friday, October 16th 2009, 15:16 GMT

Ari Vatanen has applied to the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris for it to impose measures on the FIA to ensure that next week's presidential election is fair and transparent.

Amid increasing tension between motor racing's governing body and Vatanen about the forthcoming vote, the FIA issued a critical statement on Friday claiming that the former world rally champion's latest move had brought undue negative publicity.

The governing body claimed that the checks and balances already in place were more than enough to ensure that the forthcoming vote could take place without any doubt about the election's democratic integrity.

"Mr Ari Vatanen, one of the candidates for the FIA Presidency, has today served on the FIA an application to the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris, asking the Court to impose a number of measures for the FIA election," said the FIA statement.

"Had Mr Vatanen troubled to examine the procedures in place, he would understand that these in fact already provide more safeguards than those he is asking the Court to impose.

"The FIA is therefore at a loss to explain the purpose of this legal action, if not merely to generate further negative publicity and to attempt to raise doubts about the honesty of FIA staff. This is despite the fact that a large team of FIA personnel has worked continuously over recent months to ensure that the new FIA President is elected in a dignified and democratic way.

"The FIA has retained a public official (a Huissier de Justice) to supervise the electoral process and the count. On 15 October the FIA circulated a note to all voting members outlining in detail the election process to be deployed and the role that the Huissier will play. This is available to download in the governance section of the FIA website.

"This legal action follows a number of allegations made by Mr Vatanen to the media which attempt to call into question the integrity of the FIA's personnel and the FIA's election process. However, Mr Vatanen has not taken up an invitation to specify and substantiate his allegations."

The latest development comes following reports that the FIA has been doing all it can to ensure that outgoing president Max Mosley's preferred candidate Jean Todt wins the election.

As well as suggestions that FIA Foundation Director General David Ward has been lobbying for Todt in his spare time, leaked emails have also revealed that Peter Doggwiler,the FIA Motor Sport Safety Development Fund chairman, has also been petitioning clubs to help boost support for Todt.

Todt will still win. Madagascar and all that.

[Hansy]

Bill end of the day you must have been hidden in a desert not to know of the stuff that Todt did whilst at Ferrari. alot of it is years old now and frankly i and i bet others are not going to cypher through news sites just to please your ego! I dont care that you find nothing wrong with Todt but thats your problem not anyone elses on here so i dont see why we should bother.

The infamous "everyone knows that" argument! Oh, well that sure put me in my place. Funny...how "everyone" as defined by this group means everyone who is a die hard McLaren fan. Perhaps I've been 'hidden in a desert' as you put it and just missed all of the Todt cheating scandals....or perhaps you have been living on the internet so long you only hear the 'news' as put out by other McLaren fans who also never unplug. For reference I did a google search on "Jean Todt cheats cheated lies" and found nothing. I then did a search on the same thing with Lewis Hamilton and another on Ron Dennis...and found TONS of stories. Rather odd don't you think? I have been keeping an open mind here, hoping you guys would give me something concrete from which I could also hate Jean Todt....but as it's been nearly a week and you've produced nothing but 'everyone knows that' as your proof...I'm starting to think this is a simple case of those who have been caught multiple times cheating trying like hell to get some mud to stick to their rival.

As I said, I'm very willing to hate Jean Todt...just give me a reason why, other than he has spent a career bitch slapping McLaren around on the track.

Actually... Click Here

[EwanM]

It has all kicked off today in response to Vatenen's actions.

FIA Calls For Honest And Open Election Campaign
16/10/2009

The FIA will be calling on all candidates to avoid negative campaigning and prejudicial leaks to the media. Candidates should focus on the positive aspects and opportunities of the upcoming election and its effect on motoring and motor sport.

In the meantime, in the interest of transparency, the latest correspondence between Ari Vatanen and FIA President Max Mosley is available below.

Click here to read the letter sent by Ari Vatanen on 14 October to the FIA President, which was leaked to the press yesterday.*

Click here to read yesterday’s response from the FIA President.**

For Media Information Purposes - No Regulatory Value.

*http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/FIA/2009/Documents/av_letter_to_fia.pdf

**http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/FIA/2009/Documents/fia_letter_to_av.pdf

The Integrity Of The FIA
16/10/2009

Mr Ari Vatanen, one of the candidates for the FIA Presidency, has today served on the FIA an application to the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris, asking the Court to impose a number of measures for the FIA election.

Had Mr Vatanen troubled to examine the procedures in place, he would understand that these in fact already provide more safeguards than those he is asking the Court to impose.

The FIA is therefore at a loss to explain the purpose of this legal action, if not merely to generate further negative publicity and to attempt to raise doubts about the honesty of FIA staff. This is despite the fact that a large team of FIA personnel has worked continuously over recent months to ensure that the new FIA President is elected in a dignified and democratic way.

The FIA has retained a public official (a Huissier de Justice) to supervise the electoral process and the count. On 15 October the FIA circulated a note to all voting members outlining in detail the election process to be deployed and the role that the Huissier will play. This is available to download in the governance section of the FIA website - please click here. ***

This legal action follows a number of allegations made by Mr Vatanen to the media which attempt to call into question the integrity of the FIA's personnel and the FIA's election process. However, Mr Vatanen has not taken up an invitation to specify and substantiate his allegations.

***http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/governance/elections/Pages/voting_procedure.aspx

[bud]

I wouldnt trust them either!

[autogyro]

Perhaps the failed Euro trough feeder Vatanen would be so kind as to substantiate his unsupported allegations?
He has after all run absolutely nothing and has no idea what the FIA is or what it does.

[bud]

Perhaps the failed Euro trough feeder Vatanen would be so kind as to substantiate his unsupported allegations?
He has after all run absolutely nothing and has no idea what the FIA is or what it does.

[racechick]

Perhaps the failed Euro trough feeder Vatanen would be so kind as to substantiate his unsupported allegations?
He has after all run absolutely nothing and has no idea what the FIA is or what it does.

he may have some idea that the FIA is up to its neck in corruption and needs changing.

[autogyro]

Perhaps the failed Euro trough feeder Vatanen would be so kind as to substantiate his unsupported allegations?
He has after all run absolutely nothing and has no idea what the FIA is or what it does.

he may have some idea that the FIA is up to its neck in corruption and needs changing.

Perhaps race-chick you to would like to define your accusations about the FIA and your statement that it is 'up to it's neck in corruption'?
You have facts to support this in a court of law?

[racechick]

Perhaps the failed Euro trough feeder Vatanen would be so kind as to substantiate his unsupported allegations?
He has after all run absolutely nothing and has no idea what the FIA is or what it does.

he may have some idea that the FIA is up to its neck in corruption and needs changing.

Perhaps race-chick you to would like to define your accusations about the FIA and your statement that it is 'up to it's neck in corruption'?
You have facts to support this in a court of law?

The FIA dont do courts of law, they make up their own laws as as they go. However buying votes to stay in power after whipgate springs to mind for starters.

[EwanM]

I think you'll find they do use the courts.