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[Gaz]

So if Senna is fast he will be close to Alonso's pace so there will be no need for a number one, number two driver status within the team.

No sorry there's a diffrence between Equal and then Number 2 driver.

Alonso has a large advantage over Nelson Piquet but Piquet is still s***.

I didn't say there was no difference between equal & no1/no2 status in a team?

Yeh and what i'm saying is senna would have a REALLY hard time being faster than alonso being n02 because they won't make them equal initaly

[Denthúl]

I dont think so, Alonso at Renault has never had a team mate who was close to him. Jarno got out matched badly

Except Jarno got more points and won more races while they were together in 2004... hardly 'out matched badly' i think.

Ya sorry your dead right for not being out matched badly specially in 2004. , my bad. But more points? No.

Jarno left with two races to go for Toyota on 46pts compared to Alonso's 50pts at the time. The season finnished 58pts for Alonso to Jarno's 46pts.

Erm. After the Italian Grand Prix, Trulli had 46pts and Alonso had 45pts.

[Hexagram]

So if Senna is fast he will be close to Alonso's pace so there will be no need for a number one, number two driver status within the team.

No sorry there's a diffrence between Equal and then Number 2 driver.

Alonso has a large advantage over Nelson Piquet but Piquet is still s***.

I didn't say there was no difference between equal & no1/no2 status in a team?

Yeh and what i'm saying is senna would have a REALLY hard time being faster than alonso being n02 because they won't make them equal initaly

I seriously doubt that, Renault are not going to handicap their second driver so Alonso can keep doing better.

Also Piquet Sr claiming his sons issues are with Qualifying is just but looking at the practice times Nelson was quicker than Alonso two of the three practices last weekend, Piquet still does Qualifying trim runs. The way that article read you would think he was doing none.

[scotty]

I dont think so, Alonso at Renault has never had a team mate who was close to him. Jarno got out matched badly

Except Jarno got more points and won more races while they were together in 2004... hardly 'out matched badly' i think.

Ya sorry your dead right for not being out matched badly specially in 2004. , my bad. But more points? No.

Jarno left with two races to go for Toyota on 46pts compared to Alonso's 50pts at the time. The season finnished 58pts for Alonso to Jarno's 46pts.

Erm. After the Italian Grand Prix, Trulli had 46pts and Alonso had 45pts.

This is what is was getting at, the races in '04 while they were still teammates. If only Trulli could've stayed at Renault for '05 and '06 instead of Fisichella, him and Alonso would have been such a devastating combination in those quick cars...

[Hexagram]

I dont think so, Alonso at Renault has never had a team mate who was close to him. Jarno got out matched badly

Except Jarno got more points and won more races while they were together in 2004... hardly 'out matched badly' i think.

Ya sorry your dead right for not being out matched badly specially in 2004. , my bad. But more points? No.

Jarno left with two races to go for Toyota on 46pts compared to Alonso's 50pts at the time. The season finnished 58pts for Alonso to Jarno's 46pts.

Erm. After the Italian Grand Prix, Trulli had 46pts and Alonso had 45pts.

Yup your right, i need to brush up on my facts. Can't recall why i thought Jarno was hammered by Alonso anymore in 2004. Fact is he wasn't, Jarno did a better job. I have to watch my 2004 season review dvd again.

[Denthúl]

I dont think so, Alonso at Renault has never had a team mate who was close to him. Jarno got out matched badly

Except Jarno got more points and won more races while they were together in 2004... hardly 'out matched badly' i think.

Ya sorry your dead right for not being out matched badly specially in 2004. , my bad. But more points? No.

Jarno left with two races to go for Toyota on 46pts compared to Alonso's 50pts at the time. The season finnished 58pts for Alonso to Jarno's 46pts.

Erm. After the Italian Grand Prix, Trulli had 46pts and Alonso had 45pts.

This is what is was getting at, the races in '04 while they were still teammates. If only Trulli could've stayed at Renault for '05 and '06 instead of Fisichella, him and Alonso would have been such a devastating combination in those quick cars...

I dont think so, Alonso at Renault has never had a team mate who was close to him. Jarno got out matched badly

Except Jarno got more points and won more races while they were together in 2004... hardly 'out matched badly' i think.

Ya sorry your dead right for not being out matched badly specially in 2004. , my bad. But more points? No.

Jarno left with two races to go for Toyota on 46pts compared to Alonso's 50pts at the time. The season finnished 58pts for Alonso to Jarno's 46pts.

Erm. After the Italian Grand Prix, Trulli had 46pts and Alonso had 45pts.

Yup your right, i need to brush up on my facts. Can't recall why i thought Jarno was hammered by Alonso anymore in 2004. Fact is he wasn't, Jarno did a better job. I have to watch 2004 season review again.

I think a big part of it was down to Trulli's experience, but they were both very quick back in the day. Well, they still are now.

[scotty]

To be fair to Alonso, his car failed in Spa and i think he was leading (for example) - i was just defending Trulli, who i don't think quite gets the credit he deserves sometimes.

[Gaz]

So if Senna is fast he will be close to Alonso's pace so there will be no need for a number one, number two driver status within the team.

No sorry there's a diffrence between Equal and then Number 2 driver.

Alonso has a large advantage over Nelson Piquet but Piquet is still s***.

I didn't say there was no difference between equal & no1/no2 status in a team?

Yeh and what i'm saying is senna would have a REALLY hard time being faster than alonso being n02 because they won't make them equal initaly

I seriously doubt that, Renault are not going to handicap their second driver so Alonso can keep doing better.

Also Piquet Sr claiming his sons issues are with Qualifying is just but looking at the practice times Nelson was quicker than Alonso two of the three practices last weekend, Piquet still does Qualifying trim runs. The way that article read you would think he was doing none.

1. Pracitce Means Nothing
2. Nelson is Crap - but its not helped because he's Number 2

If you think being a number 2 driver is the same as being equal you've got it pretty wrong.

[Hexagram]

1. Pracitce Means Nothing
2. Nelson is Crap - but its not helped because he's Number 2

If you think being a number 2 driver is the same as being equal you've got it pretty wrong.

I didn't say that being a number 2 driver is the same, i just wanted to point out that equal driver status can & does happen within teams if both drivers are closely matched. And I just don't think there is an invisible force stopping a number 2 driver in a team such as in Piquet's case from shining if he was able to do so.

[Denthúl]

Nobody has said that Piquet is treated equally, but I think it's safe to say that it's not as bad as he and his father make it out to be. I do think he could do with some more low-fuel running in practice sessions, because his race pace isn't actually that bad. Here's a comparison of Alonso and Piquet from Sunday:

Fernando:16 P 1:38.622 17 2:00.366 18 1:36.269 19 1:36.192 20 1:36.359 21 1:36.254 22 1:36.359 23 1:36.248 24 1:36.236 25 1:36.133 26 1:36.105 27 1:35.974 28 1:36.010 29 1:35.722 30 1:36.031 31 1:36.100 32 1:36.132 33 1:36.178 34 1:36.202 35 1:35.911 36 1:35.928 37 P 1:38.445

Nelson:23 P 1:40.156 24 1:59.474 25 1:36.474 26 1:36.040 27 1:35.924 28 1:36.070 29 1:36.351 30 1:36.144 31 1:37.480 32 1:36.338 33 1:35.514 34 1:35.735 35 1:35.850 36 1:35.679 37 1:35.441 38 1:35.859 39 1:35.852 40 1:35.624 41 1:35.550 42 P 1:38.331

This is the second stint that they ran, with their fastest laps in bold.

[racechick]

I hope Senna doesnt go to Renault. Not while Flavio and Alonso are there anyway.

You really don't like Alonso at all.

No I dont like him because I think drivers should win without unfair favours; but that in itself isnt why i wouldnt want Senna there. I like Senna but If Alonso and Flav put the team orders crap on him it could destroy him. McLaren had to invest a lot of time unmessing Heikki after the Flavio treatment.I suspect Piquet isnt as bad as he looks.

[Hexagram]

Nobody has said that Piquet is treated equally, but I think it's safe to say that it's not as bad as he and his father make it out to be. I do think he could do with some more low-fuel running in practice sessions, because his race pace isn't actually that bad. Here's a comparison of Alonso and Piquet from Sunday:

Fernando:16 P 1:38.622 17 2:00.366 18 1:36.269 19 1:36.192 20 1:36.359 21 1:36.254 22 1:36.359 23 1:36.248 24 1:36.236 25 1:36.133 26 1:36.105 27 1:35.974 28 1:36.010 29 1:35.722 30 1:36.031 31 1:36.100 32 1:36.132 33 1:36.178 34 1:36.202 35 1:35.911 36 1:35.928 37 P 1:38.445

Nelson:23 P 1:40.156 24 1:59.474 25 1:36.474 26 1:36.040 27 1:35.924 28 1:36.070 29 1:36.351 30 1:36.144 31 1:37.480 32 1:36.338 33 1:35.514 34 1:35.735 35 1:35.850 36 1:35.679 37 1:35.441 38 1:35.859 39 1:35.852 40 1:35.624 41 1:35.550 42 P 1:38.331

This is the second stint that they ran, with their fastest laps in bold.

At the end of his stint he was a good bit quicker than Alonso. Impressive. Where did you get this data?

[Denthúl]

At the end of his stint he was a good bit quicker than Alonso. Impressive. Where did you get this data?

The FIA website. He was on or above Fernando's pace for the vast majority of the race, looking through the sheets. Consistent performance is Piquet's real weakness, because on a good day he is a good Formula One driver. However he can't perform like this all the time and I imagine that part of it is down to confidence. He's constantly getting bad articles written about him and Flavio is constantly whining about him. I think he needed to start lower than Renault. Force India or even Toro Rosso may have been better for his development, as being thrown in at the deep-end isn't the best way for everyone to learn.

[dotdotger]

Nobody has said that Piquet is treated equally, but I think it's safe to say that it's not as bad as he and his father make it out to be. I do think he could do with some more low-fuel running in practice sessions, because his race pace isn't actually that bad. Here's a comparison of Alonso and Piquet from Sunday:

Fernando:16 P 1:38.622 17 2:00.366 18 1:36.269 19 1:36.192 20 1:36.359 21 1:36.254 22 1:36.359 23 1:36.248 24 1:36.236 25 1:36.133 26 1:36.105 27 1:35.974 28 1:36.010 29 1:35.722 30 1:36.031 31 1:36.100 32 1:36.132 33 1:36.178 34 1:36.202 35 1:35.911 36 1:35.928 37 P 1:38.445

Nelson:23 P 1:40.156 24 1:59.474 25 1:36.474 26 1:36.040 27 1:35.924 28 1:36.070 29 1:36.351 30 1:36.144 31 1:37.480 32 1:36.338 33 1:35.514 34 1:35.735 35 1:35.850 36 1:35.679 37 1:35.441 38 1:35.859 39 1:35.852 40 1:35.624 41 1:35.550 42 P 1:38.331

This is the second stint that they ran, with their fastest laps in bold.

At the end of his stint he was a good bit quicker than Alonso. Impressive. Where did you get this data?

I am not about to write Jr off, but let's not forget that Alonso was dehydrated throughout the race.

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... /9277.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Toyota’s team doctor stated that "When a driver who is normally super fit is sick, he is likely to be four tenths - maximum half a second - slower than usual in the race."

Which was probably why he was going slower towards the end of the race.

[deMuRe]

Is it me or does the Renault car look several stone over weight, bloated at the sides and look like its been smacked in the face with a cricket bat?!!!!!

Someone left the drawing room door unlocked one day and Piquet got in with a box of crayons.