FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[billindenver]

I don't recall who said it, but an idea was thrown out in here somewhere that engine development should be free once more...and the amount of FUEL issued per race (including qualifying) should be regulated and gradually reduced. In today's world that has two benefits...it allows the brilliance of F1 engineering to benefit the rest of this world and it will do what the FIA has been striving for years to accomplish with little success...it will gradually slow the cars down.

[FerrariFan63]

infact i think it can be glibly passed off with that comment! F1 is constructor vs constructor! the pinnacle of motorsport is not a spec series!

Yes, but I wasn't comparing the spec engine series to the current F1. I was asking if there was a risk of the option being, in the long term, between a spec engine series and no F1 at all. Note that I'm not saying that this would happen, but that it is a possibility that should be given serious consideration.

do you think Honda Toyota BMW want to build chassis only to have another automobile make power the thing? they would ALL pull out only teams such as WIlliams Redbull Force India, and to some extent McLaren(majority share holder is Daimler) could get away with a spec engine!

As I said before, the manufacturers wouldn't go for it.

[FerrariFan63]

I don't recall who said it, but an idea was thrown out in here somewhere that engine development should be free once more...and the amount of FUEL issued per race (including qualifying) should be regulated and gradually reduced. In today's world that has two benefits...it allows the brilliance of F1 engineering to benefit the rest of this world and it will do what the FIA has been striving for years to accomplish with little success...it will gradually slow the cars down.

Isn't this effectively what happens in MotoGP?

I've heard that it also equalises engines somewhat, as it makes it harder for engine designers to find a competitive advantage by getting more fuel going through the engine.

[FerrariFan63]

So if they do this and they then have say a McLaren-Ferrari team, who do the hell do I go for, McLaren-Ferrari or Scuderia Ferrari? That is about as dumb as an osel! (Donkey). I doubt Max Mosley will get his way here. None of the teams will ever agree with it. Never!

The only way I can see this measure coming in is if two things happen. First, there is already a mass manufacturer walkout as we see in the Le Mans race from time to time. And secondly that the engine used as the spec engine is not branded with any particularly manufacturer. Unless that manufacturer is the only one left among smaller teams. Clearly you would never have a Renault-Ferrari or Ferrari-Renault.

However, if Mercedes should leave, I could see a McLaren-Renault or McLaren-Ferrari. McLaren has its own identity as a team which I think would have it survive a pull-out by manufacturers.

[xd3vilx]

So what next after a standard engine. Standard bodyframe? Standard wings? Standard...idk. Helmet? WTH. I though formula 1 is all about innovation and speed. With restriction here there, F1 will not be F1 anymore.

[bud]

I don't recall who said it, but an idea was thrown out in here somewhere that engine development should be free once more...and the amount of FUEL issued per race (including qualifying) should be regulated and gradually reduced. In today's world that has two benefits...it allows the brilliance of F1 engineering to benefit the rest of this world and it will do what the FIA has been striving for years to accomplish with little success...it will gradually slow the cars down.

Isn't this effectively what happens in MotoGP?

I've heard that it also equalises engines somewhat, as it makes it harder for engine designers to find a competitive advantage by getting more fuel going through the engine.

darwin dali's idea!

it is a good idea and will allow F1 designers to actually come up with radical ideas instead of being told what they can do down to the millimeter .... but that wont cut costs now will it.

[McLaren Fan]

From F1 Live:

Renault is the only team that currently supports FIA President Max Mosley's proposal for a common engine in F1.

Mosley's suggestion has been a major subject of discussion in the latest meetings of the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA), according to Auto Motor und Sport.

The report said only Renault currently backs the plan, but team customer Red Bull might also fall in line should the issue go to a vote.

Under the FOTA statutes, rule changes such as the common engine proposal require at least seven of the ten teams to vote in favour.

The same publication claims that F1 CEO Bernie Ecclestone is annoyed with McLaren. Of the 20 race drivers, only Lewis Hamilton and Heikki Kovalainen reportedly turned down an invitation on Friday to attend a lunch with Singapore President Sellapan Rama Nathan.

E.A, Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

Well, the single-engine proposal has clearly gone down like a lead balloon - quelle surprise.

[7UpJordan]

Well of course Renault would love the "single engine" rule so they don't have to bother trying to play catch up with Ferrari, Mercedes and Toyota's engines.

[McLaren Fan]

Well of course Renault would love the "single engine" rule so they don't have to bother trying to play catch up with Ferrari, Mercedes and Toyota's engines.

Yeah. It was not much of a surprise to see them being the only team for this, as well as Red Bull who have been unfortunate enough to be using their engines! Newey underestimated how much the engines could still be tuned up and didn't factor in that Renault do everything on a budget.

[7UpJordan]

Well of course Renault would love the "single engine" rule so they don't have to bother trying to play catch up with Ferrari, Mercedes and Toyota's engines.

Yeah. It was not much of a surprise to see them being the only team for this, as well as Red Bull who have been unfortunate enough to be using their engines! Newey underestimated how much the engines could still be tuned up and didn't factor in that Renault do everything on a budget.

And Red Bull did have Ferrari engines back in 2006 when Newey joined them so he's made a rather foolish mistake telling them to ditch the Ferrari engine and get less power from Renault instead. If he totally had it his way he'd ask for a Judd V8 straight from the raised nose March he designed 20 years ago.

[McLaren Fan]

Newey's an aeronautical engine. He should have got some advise from a mechanical engineer.

[7UpJordan]

:hehe:

Newey's an aeronautical engine. He should have got some advise from a mechanical engineer.

And he got plenty of that from Patrick Head back in his days at Williams, Newey's cars have never been as reliable ever since he left them.

[McLaren Fan]

:hehe:

Newey's an aeronautical engine. He should have got some advise from a mechanical engineer.

And he got plenty of that from Patrick Head back in his days at Williams, Newey's cars have never been as reliable ever since he left them.

To be honest, his time at McLaren was a disaster. His cars, as I see, were works of art. Aesthetically they were beautiful, both inside and out. For instance, the double wishboned, pushrod-operated rockers suspension system he designed for the MP4-14 was a wonderful piece of engineering, but it took two or three times the length of time to replace and was much more prone to breaking. Rory Byrne had the right balance between speed and reliability, and, to be honest, Newey allowed him to be so conservative, for you could nearly guarantee the McLaren would smoke the entire grid before going up in smoke itself.

[McLaren Fan]

From F1 Live:

Max Mosley on Wednesday met with his Ferrari counterpart and F1 teams' FOTA chairman Luca di Montezemolo in Nice, France.

The FIA President will reprise the meeting after this month's Chinese Grand Prix with the entire FOTA contingent, to discuss the 'urgent' need for 'very significant' cost cuts.

Crucially, Mosley seems to have won the full backing of F1's Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone, who told The Times newspaper that he also wants to see teams use a standard engine in 2010.

"The thing I am most excited about is pushing and pushing and pushing the homologated engine idea," the Briton said.

The idea is that F1's manufacturers build their own engines according to a common design, with only one scheduled change per driver allowed each season.

Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

Nooooooooooooooo!

[McLaren Fan]

From autosport.com:

Ecclestone wants standard F1 engine

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, October 9th 2008, 07:39 GMT

Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone is pushing for the sport to introduce a standard engine as soon as 2010.

Amid a renewed drive to drastically reduce costs, with FIA president Max Mosley warning the sport must act now if it is to survive beyond next year, Ecclestone suggests the use of a single specification of engine is the best way forward.

Speaking to The Times, Ecclestone said: "The thing I am most excited about is pushing and pushing and pushing the homologated engine idea.

"The new engine will be equalised and there will only be two engine changes a year, so costs are going to dramatically come down, and I mean dramatically."

According to The Times, teams would use just two engines per car each season.

Each power unit would be built to a standard specification by manufacturers, who would also be able to badge it with their own name. Independent teams would have access to the engines through an independent contract.

And Ecclestone as well...