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#54999

Sometimes I wonder if I really hate Ron and Lewis because if they keep going at the rate they are going they are going to break Schumi's records in F1.


So not, few other teams a lot will have to say about as well - no worries necessary :yoda:
#55000
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...


Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.


The drivers were messing about with settings during testing based on the technical dossier.

Don't bullsh!t me with your propoganda...
#55002

Sometimes I wonder if I really hate Ron and Lewis because if they keep going at the rate they are going they are going to break Schumi's records in F1.


So not, few other teams a lot will have to say about as well - no worries necessary :yoda:


I find your words very comforting :D

I always wondered if prost went into business as a team boss to try and protect his record...
#55004

Sometimes I wonder if I really hate Ron and Lewis because if they keep going at the rate they are going they are going to break Schumi's records in F1.


So not, few other teams a lot will have to say about as well - no worries necessary :yoda:


I find your words very comforting :D

I always wondered if prost went into business as a team boss to try and protect his record...


Well, he failed miserably :hehe:
#55005
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...


Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.


The drivers were messing about with settings during testing based on the technical dossier.

Don't bullsh!t me with your propoganda...


You bullsh1t yourself. The data tested by de la Rosa was worthless on the MP4-22. The only remotely useful thing was the air mixture for the tyres, which was not unheard of in racing and Formula One anyway.

So, you keep telling yourself that McLaren are evil, DeMuRe, if it helps you sleep at night. If there's another bad guy in town maybe you'll feel better about Ferrari and Schumacher's manifest indiscretions.
Last edited by McLaren Fan on 13 Jul 08, 00:20, edited 1 time in total.
#55007

Sometimes I wonder if I really hate Ron and Lewis because if they keep going at the rate they are going they are going to break Schumi's records in F1.


So not, few other teams a lot will have to say about as well - no worries necessary :yoda:


I find your words very comforting :D

I always wondered if prost went into business as a team boss to try and protect his record...


Well, he failed miserably :hehe:


I sort of liked how he ended. Pre season testing he was show boating on fumes and even fooled the press into thinking he was a dark horse for the next season. Maybe the press tried to do him a favour and get a foolish sponsor to throw him some money. Who knows...
#55009
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...


Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.


There is a problem with your statement in the first paragraph which as a consequence makes the rest just a HYPOTHESIS from a McLaren lamb of the highers order. :hehe:

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't.


Tell me how the hell you know that for fact ? Because Ron tells us so. :vomit:

How gullible can you get. And your not Bias :yikes:

Ron Dennis is a business man and will do whatever it takes to win, end of story.
Successful Business men are not known for there integrity.

Have a look at this snake in the grass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x9bjEo0DFE
#55011
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...


Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.


The drivers were messing about with settings during testing based on the technical dossier.

Don't bullsh!t me with your propoganda...


You bullsh1t yourself. The data tested by de la Rosa was worthless on the MP4-22. The only remotely useful thing was the air mixture for the tyres, which was not unheard of in racing and Formula One anyway.

So, you keep telling yourself that McLaren are evil DeMuRe if it helps you sleep at night. If there's another bad guy in town maybe you'll feel better about Ferrari and Schumacher's manifest indiscretions.


I was waiting for you to bring up Ferrari and Schumacher :hehe:

I'm sure the data was useless, the 2007 McLaren didn't incorporate the Ferrari design philosophy. You're missing the point, they were trying to gain an advantage using Ferrari intellectual property.
#55012
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...


Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.


There is a problem with your statement in the first paragraph which as a consequence makes the rest just a HYPOTHESIS from a McLaren lamb of the highers order. :hehe:

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't.


Tell me how the hell you know that for fact ? Because Ron tells us so. :vomit:

How gullible can you get. And your not Bias :yikes:

Ron Dennis is a business man and will do whatever it takes to win, end of story.
Successful Business men are not known for there integrity.

Have a look at this snake in the grass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x9bjEo0DFE


They all wear T-Shirts saying "Because Ron Told Me So"

:rofl:
#55013
There is a problem with your statement in the first paragraph which as a consequence makes the rest just a HYPOTHESIS from a McLaren lamb of the highers order. :hehe:

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't.


Tell me how the hell you know that for fact ? Because Ron tells us so. :vomit:

How gullible can you get. And your not Bias :yikes:

Ron Dennis is a business man and will do whatever it takes to win, end of story.
Successful Business men are not known for there integrity.

Have a look at this snake in the grass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x9bjEo0DFE

Look at the evidence. The vast majority of the concrete stuff points towards Ron Dennis not knowing anything, completely outweighing your suppositions.

Further, there is an incongruity with the Ferrari camp's case on this one. According to Maranello mob's crew, Ron Dennis is disaster. McLaren is a shambles and Ron Dennis' policies of driver equality (which, also, incongruously, don't exist) have cost the team titles. Is Ron Dennis a successful and shrewd businessman or not?
#55015
I'm sure the data was useless, the 2007 McLaren didn't incorporate the Ferrari design philosophy. You're missing the point, they were trying to gain an advantage using Ferrari intellectual property.

As has been said before, you're talking about a couple of rogue employees throughout the whole team. Their role in the spy scandal has been admitted. In fact, it was McLaren who went to the FIA about this, Ron Dennis phoning Max Mosley personally.

Now, DeMuRe, how about a word on Ferrari sending photographers to infiltrate into the McLaren garages and place on the paddock and to spy on BMW's pit stops?
#55018
There is a problem with your statement in the first paragraph which as a consequence makes the rest just a HYPOTHESIS from a McLaren lamb of the highers order. :hehe:

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't.


Tell me how the hell you know that for fact ? Because Ron tells us so. :vomit:

How gullible can you get. And your not Bias :yikes:

Ron Dennis is a business man and will do whatever it takes to win, end of story.
Successful Business men are not known for there integrity.

Have a look at this snake in the grass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x9bjEo0DFE

Look at the evidence. The vast majority of the concrete stuff points towards Ron Dennis not knowing anything, completely outweighing your suppositions.

Further, there is an incongruity with the Ferrari camp's case on this one. According to Maranello mob's crew, Ron Dennis is disaster. McLaren is a shambles and Ron Dennis' policies of driver equality (which, also, incongruously, don't exist) have cost the team titles. Is Ron Dennis a successful and shrewd businessman or not?


The ONLY incongruity is with the LAMBS.
Your kidding yourself mate. Ron Dennis is a control freak & he would know whats going on.

But if it makes you feel better believing it be my guests, but just be ready to be ridiculed every time you bring up this crap :hehe:
#55019
I'm sure the data was useless, the 2007 McLaren didn't incorporate the Ferrari design philosophy. You're missing the point, they were trying to gain an advantage using Ferrari intellectual property.

As has been said before, you're talking about a couple of rogue employees throughout the whole team. Their role in the spy scandal has been admitted. In fact, it was McLaren who went to the FIA about this, Ron Dennis phoning Max Mosley personally.

Now, DeMuRe, how about a word on Ferrari sending photographers to infiltrate into the McLaren garages and place on the paddock and to spy on BMW's pit stops?


How stupid do you think I am? A couple of rogue employee's acting completely solo with no knowledge from anyone else about what they were doing?

I'm sure in your mind you like to rationalise this fantasy for the glory of your team, however in the real world that is just complete :bs:
#55022
I'm sure the data was useless, the 2007 McLaren didn't incorporate the Ferrari design philosophy. You're missing the point, they were trying to gain an advantage using Ferrari intellectual property.

As has been said before, you're talking about a couple of rogue employees throughout the whole team. Their role in the spy scandal has been admitted. In fact, it was McLaren who went to the FIA about this, Ron Dennis phoning Max Mosley personally.

Now, DeMuRe, how about a word on Ferrari sending photographers to infiltrate into the McLaren garages and place on the paddock and to spy on BMW's pit stops?


How stupid do you think I am? A couple of rogue employee's acting completely solo with no knowledge from anyone else about what they were doing?

I'm sure in your mind you like to rationalise this fantasy for the glory of your team, however in the real world that is just complete :bs:


deMuRe, and he tries tells us he is not Bias. :rofl:
#55023
I don't give a flying f*** what either of you two think. :shrug:
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