FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans

Formula One related discussion.
#43989

The point I was making is that Alonso didn't have to come into it. The comparison Jensonb made was between the MP4-22 and Hamilton, and the Renault and Toyota driven by Kovalainen and Glock respectively, with Piquet as an addition for this time round.


mate dont you get it? dont you know what a yard stick is?? if the car was so piss easy to drive then why not compare Hamiltons skill to the guy in the same car. you see it as a dig at Alonso dont ya? :roll:


No, I do get it and I don't take it as a dig at Alonso - I couldn't care what your opinion of him is, it isn't the matter at hand here. And I'm not going to get into the argument with you, either. Now...

The point is, there was no comparison between a rookie and a guy who has been driving in F1 for years. If you look back at it, you can clearly see (unless you are only picking out what you want to read) that the point made was that Hamilton had his first year in a good car, whilst the other three had cars which were hard for experienced drivers to get into the points, let alone rookies.

By all means, make your comparison to Alonso, but do please realise that it doesn't actually hold any relevence to the point which is being made, which iss rookie drivers and the cars that they drove. Hamilton has talent and was given the best car with which to perform. To compare other rookies to that standard, when they are driving vastly inferior vehicles, is unfair on them.


It makes every relevance who the team-mate is. The only true yardstick /measure/whatever you want to call it, is how you perform against your team mate. Lewis may have had the best car but he also had the best teammate, and he beat him. Of course those other rookies couldnt have achieved the same championship standing as Lewis in a lesser car but they could have perfornmd better against their team mate. You say the McLaren was easy to drive-I take your word for it, but Alonso had a few problems adjusting to the tyres so maybe not quite the piece of cake you assume.


Yes. Which is precisely why people shouldn't be expecting them to perform as well as Lewis did last year. But they are doing.

And I'm not saying the McLaren was easy to drive, because I don't think any F1 car would be. However, it was faster than the Renaults and Toyota, had better mechanical and aerodynamic grip and was more reliable.
#43998
Lewis may have had the best car but he also had the best teammate, and he beat him.


He beat him with equal points? Alonso threw away some points at Hungary because of the culprit's lack of discipline, and it came back to haunt him and MClaren, because without this penalty, he would have finished ahead of Lewis in the standings. One thing is absolutely clear, no matter how great Lewis' accomplishment and talent is, and no matter how childishly Alonso may have behaved: If Mclaren had given Alonso the support Lewis enjoys, he would have won Mclaren the WDC.
#44005
Lewis may have had the best car but he also had the best teammate, and he beat him.


He beat him with equal points? Alonso threw away some points at Hungary because of the culprit's lack of discipline, and it came back to haunt him and MClaren, because without this penalty, he would have finished ahead of Lewis in the standings. One thing is absolutely clear, no matter how great Lewis' accomplishment and talent is, and no matter how childishly Alonso may have behaved: If Mclaren had given Alonso the support Lewis enjoys, he would have won Mclaren the WDC.

Well, to deal with the first part of your post, if Alonso also had kept his cool, for instance, at Canada where he was off the track more than on it and damaged the car, he would also have been champion. The second part of your post is, however, wrong, and has been disproved numerous times by myself on this forum. Hamilton did very, very well, but Alonso shot himself on the foot (not McLaren or Hamilton).
#44006
I should qualify that by saying that although Hamilton's end of season was poor, Alonso's off-track antics and mistakes throughout the season added up to be more costly than Hamilton's errors.
#44007
Correct but, at the end of the day, both of them made crucial mistakes that cost McLaren two championships that, with a driver pairing such as Hakkinen and Coulthard, would have been impossible to lose. :/
#44008
I should qualify that by saying that although Hamilton's end of season was poor, Alonso's off-track antics and mistakes throughout the season added up to be more costly than Hamilton's errors.


Of course, we can't expect both of the guys' season to have been perfect, and with a season so closely contested, it was only reasonable that the final standing was to be been decided by a "small detail". Let's say Lewis had 4 poor races last season: China, Turkey, Spa and Brazil... Alonso had 2 poor races, being Canada and Japan. It's ok, they are drivers, and they made some understandable errors... But they both had a great season. What I'm saying is that without the incident in Hungary, despite his mistakes in these races... Alonso would have won it. And this incident would not have taken place if Mclaren and Dennis had the situation under control. On the other hand, Lewis' mistakes cost him the title.

That being said... Mclaren showed in Turkey that the car is capable. And yeah.. Lewis had an amazing race. Now, let's see if their drivers are able to put it together this year and fight for the title, as they would have already been doing had they kept Alonso.
#44010
Correct but, at the end of the day, both of them made crucial mistakes that cost McLaren two championships that, with a driver pairing such as Hakkinen and Coulthard, would have been impossible to lose. :/


Read Dc's Autobiography he well tells it how it is with Mclaren and Ron's love of Mika :P
#44012
Correct but, at the end of the day, both of them made crucial mistakes that cost McLaren two championships that, with a driver pairing such as Hakkinen and Coulthard, would have been impossible to lose. :/


Read Dc's Autobiography he well tells it how it is with Mclaren and Ron's love of Mika :P


Even without reading DC's book everyone knows this, Ron Dennis was quoted in the press "Mika is like a second son to me."
#44013
Correct but, at the end of the day, both of them made crucial mistakes that cost McLaren two championships that, with a driver pairing such as Hakkinen and Coulthard, would have been impossible to lose. :/


Read Dc's Autobiography he well tells it how it is with Mclaren and Ron's love of Mika :P


Even without reading DC's book everyone knows this, Ron Dennis was quoted in the press "Mika is like a second son to me."


And Lewis is his 3rd... especially since he put Kimi JPM and Alonso up for adoption :P
#44016
:lol::lol: Thats a a fair few sons Ron seems to be aquiring :lol::lol:
#44032
:lol:

Ron Dennis did get on well with Hakkinen, and that's understandable. Hakkinen took over the team after Senna left, and then was nearly killed in a McLaren in 1995. Hakkinen, however, came back as fast as ever, stayed loyal to the team (and Mercedes, even after all their engine failures!) and turn McLaren into a force again in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It's a pity that McLaren couldn't quite give him the chassis and Mercedes the engine he really deserved. Still, at least he has two titles, for there was a time people feared his talent would go unrewarded with McLaren struggling. Hakkinen was a class driver and decent fellow. One of Formula One's greats. It was a pleasure to have him drive for McLaren.
#44056
:lol:

Ron Dennis did get on well with Hakkinen, and that's understandable. Hakkinen took over the team after Senna left, and then was nearly killed in a McLaren in 1995. Hakkinen, however, came back as fast as ever, stayed loyal to the team (and Mercedes, even after all their engine failures!) and turn McLaren into a force again in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It's a pity that McLaren couldn't quite give him the chassis and Mercedes the engine he really deserved. Still, at least he has two titles, for there was a time people feared his talent would go unrewarded with McLaren struggling. Hakkinen was a class driver and decent fellow. One of Formula One's greats. It was a pleasure to have him drive for McLaren.


And Mika was one of the very few drivers Schumi both feared and respected at the same time. During the battles of the 1998/1999/2000 seasons Schumi developed a deep respect for Hakkinen...

I liked Mika, a very worthy opponent...
#44059
:lol:

Ron Dennis did get on well with Hakkinen, and that's understandable. Hakkinen took over the team after Senna left, and then was nearly killed in a McLaren in 1995. Hakkinen, however, came back as fast as ever, stayed loyal to the team (and Mercedes, even after all their engine failures!) and turn McLaren into a force again in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It's a pity that McLaren couldn't quite give him the chassis and Mercedes the engine he really deserved. Still, at least he has two titles, for there was a time people feared his talent would go unrewarded with McLaren struggling. Hakkinen was a class driver and decent fellow. One of Formula One's greats. It was a pleasure to have him drive for McLaren.


And Mika was one of the very few drivers Schumi both feared and respected at the same time. During the battles of the 1998/1999/2000 seasons Schumi developed a deep respect for Hakkinen...

I liked Mika, a very worthy opponent...


Mika Vs Mike years were great to watch!

See our F1 related articles too!