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[darwin dali]

Maybe they basically have no pencil and paper or clay left in the MTC! (metaphorically speaking)

Unlike AN

mate, I thought you meant 'unlike Newey' ironically meaning that Newey uses technology also

however I am now convinced that you are referring to a fairly recent interview with AN, where it was claimed that he still has an old school drawing board somewhere

am i correct?

Correct - he still uses paper and pencil and has his lackeys input them into computers.

[f1bettings]

I feel like I am repeating the obvious but it starts first with the engineering team and having a solid technical director. These guys are not easy to come by and whoever offers them more money or a better opportunity usually score big.

Look at the money teams right now: RedBull, Mercedes, Ferrari. McLaren were a money team at one point but they clearly have less than the other 3 as they are losing players and parts of their team to this. McLaren have ok drivers but their car this year is just not as sharp as last year not to mention they don't have a quality driver like Lewis Hamilton.

They need to get back to a car design that works. This year they are struggling with something new just like Ferrari last year. If they get a better car in place, maybe they might be able to score another good driver. Perhaps on the radar would be Mark Webber or Kimi Raikkonen.

[CookinFlat6]

Human intuition gets lost when complete faith is placed on modelling.

Much easier to place the decision in the hands of a human with experience rather than use the 'mathematically best option' generated by your primitive high tech datapoint 90% accuracy modelling

simply because the 10% WILL occur once a decade and will kill you, whereas a Newey will be able to add the optionality on a per case basis.

I guess McLaren let AN go because they wanted the hi tech 'matrix' 'no star engineer' culture.

Which has yielded how many trophies? hmmmn

[CookinFlat6]

They need to get back to a car design that works. This year they are struggling with something new just like Ferrari last year. If they get a better car in place, maybe they might be able to score another good driver. Perhaps on the radar would be Mark Webber or Kimi Raikkonen.

It was a massive mistake to radically change something that wasnt broke, at a time of weakening in the driver and engineer stakes. I am convinced I know why that happened, and his name is Button.

The new engine supplier and new regulations coming up will not help. Like this year maybe best to accept the new reality (fighting FI for a higher WDC place) and look at a medium term solution.

Like Williams, try to establish themselves in mid grid and then work forwards.

Kimi? are you serious? Kimi will be looking at RBR or Ferrari. Webber would be good but I suspect the team need drivers with funds if they are not Japanese

[PartsaS]

We don't want Webber in Mclaren... We have suffered enough this year.
Seriously if he can't make good use of the fastest car on the grid, in a Mclaren he would be a disaster, disgrace ....
Button is at least 2 times better driver than Webber.(m.o.)

[Hammer278]

:rolleyes: We don't want Webber in Mclaren... We have suffered enough this year.
Seriously if he can't make good use of the fastest car on the grid, in a Mclaren he would be a disaster, disgrace ....
Button is at least 2 times better driver than Webber.(m.o.)

Well I guess we're all entitled to an opinion......

[racechick]

I don't think Button will be going anywhere . I dont think Martin will get rid of him for the following reasons
1. Martin isn't hard nosed enough.
2. Martin is loyal and has continually supported Button through thick and thin, can't see it changing
3. He seems to have a special relationship with Button.
4. Face. He appointed Button and will be desperate to have something work out.

NB! the opening two sentences both contain the words 'I' and 'think'

[PartsaS]

Where did the rumours about Button leaving McLaren came from?
Right now, no other driver can help McLaren with development more than Button can.
How is he on fault with the car? he's not an engineer or the manager of the team.
He was a favorite for the title, before the start of this season.(having in mind the pace of mp4-27).
And now he is the one to blame... for what?

[Hammer278]

Where did the rumours about Button leaving McLaren came from?
Right now, no other driver can help McLaren with development more than Button can.
How is he on fault with the car? he's not an engineer or the manager of the team.
He was a favorite for the title, before the start of this season.(having in mind the pace of mp4-27).
And now he is the one to blame... for what?

Evidence of Button's past 'development' prowess? Which team do you want to use...Brawn? Benetton? Williams? BAR? Lol take your pick.

[PartsaS]

Right now, he is the best card we have due to his experience, and contact with the team.
The drivers add to the development of a team is just to make theory (labs, factories, simulators) become fact (pace on track). There so many aspects to the general development of a car, that we can't just accuse a single driver for that.

[LiamCatterson]

They should of used their 2012 car

At least that was faster than this years

[darwin dali]

They should of used their 2012 car

At least that was faster than this years

A bit harsh

[LiamCatterson]

They should of used their 2012 car

At least that was faster than this years

A bit harsh

[What's Burning?]

so it's inconclusive as to whether or not Mclaren will right their ship this season? I know all championship hopes are wayside, but can they get to a level where they're competitive enough for a podium at some point during this season?

Part of solving McLaren's problem in my opinion is that both Lotus and Mercedes have risen so after Ferrari and Red Bull, there's not much wiggle room left for that third podium step. it's simply more competitive at the sharp end and McLaren misplaced their honing stone.

[CookinFlat6]

If we assume that the front of the grid is now the top 4 teams with mid grid the next tier, with the back the last 2 teams or so. So to be at the front they need to overcome 3 teams with substantially more funds, better drivers and sharper management.

Either they have to spend big to change this or they have to accept reality and plan how to live within their means and then max their resources, like Lotus seem to have learnt how to do. Lotus dont have a title sponsor, yet have just done an equity deal with some rich Arabs called infinity. They have Kimi and are obviously punching above their weight.

McLaren need to forget the assumptions of instant miraculous return to the glory days of the 80s and knuckle down their position as a team with less funds and assets as the big boys and try maximise, cut clever deals, get drivers who can help the car move forward or can lead the team by maxing a car thats not best.

If they announce a title sponsor paying in the region of 50mill a year, and they are still free to choose their own drivers etc, then that will make up for the shorfall from finishing 5th (or 6th)

They need to see the next couple of years as a way of stabilising and consolidating what they have. Next year will be just as hard as this year in that there will be a new engine just for the year and a lot of changes. And this year shows us they are not so good at handling change and bad cars anymore. So forget next year for returning to the front, 2015, new engine - maybe similar problems getting the package to work intra season when the rest have a years headstart.

So 2016 should have a competitive car from start, will need sharp operations, management and the right drivers, but they could then do what Lotus have done and move forward, or they could do what Williams did and move further backwards first

And this is all on the assumption that Honda will turn out an engine thats not comparable to what Cosworth supplied to Williams. And as far as racing engines Cosworth had as much history as Honda in making good engines.

And they need to stop accepting computer models of the the best solution and have their most experienced heads make the calls. e.g the computer says, doing this is best, say a certain strategy for the British GP. But that model doesnt account for the fact that the driver, say Button, would have to drive as well as he has done on average in the last few races. This is where a human might say 'lets over ride that suggestion, because this is Buttons home race and he will be extra cautious about looking bad, and therefore wont be at the computed optimum level' (just an example ofcourse but the point remains)