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[Hammer278]

....Lewis lost the WDC thanks to McLaren's part in mismanagement and having a backstabbing blackmailing boss who ripped the team apart that year. That doesn't make it Kimi's fault.

Harsh words for Ron. Although when he came out publicly saying the McLaren team was not fighting Kimi/Ferrari but rather fighting Nando I knew we had another championship as good as in the bag

Ron was the boss, not a teammate.

No need to be that harsh and pedantic on your wording. I fixed it for you now

I just noticed the change in my quote 2 posts ago...you do know one of the rules of the forum to not f*ck around with others' quotes don't you? As a mod you might want to put a post-it nearby to remind yourself of this.

[What's Burning?]

Guys, guys... Need I remind you that the lousy one trick pony Vettel has beaten both of them for years now? Let's have this discussion at the end of 2014 when well have 3 multiple WDC winners on the grid. And I'm not talking Kimi or Jens.

[CookinFlat6]

....Lewis lost the WDC thanks to McLaren's part in mismanagement and having a backstabbing blackmailing boss who ripped the team apart that year. That doesn't make it Kimi's fault.

Harsh words for Ron. Although when he came out publicly saying the McLaren team was not fighting Kimi/Ferrari but rather fighting Nando I knew we had another championship as good as in the bag

Ron was the boss, not a teammate.

No need to be that harsh and pedantic on your wording. I fixed it for you now

I just noticed the change in my quote 2 posts ago...you do know one of the rules of the forum to not f*ck around with others' quotes don't you? As a mod you might want to put a post-it nearby to remind yourself of this.

[spankyham]

Guys, guys... Need I remind you that the lousy one trick pony Vettel has beaten both of them for years now? Let's have this discussion at the end of 2014 when well have 3 multiple WDC winners on the grid. And I'm not talking Kimi or Jens.

So Nando wins the WDC and Mika Hakkinen makes a comeback

*** Edited because it appears I don't know my double from single WDC ***

[Jabberwocky]

I was thinking Schumi is going to come back with Caterham

[Hammer278]

I was thinking an atom bomb kills about 14 drivers and Button becomes Champion again.

[sagi58]

Sagi, no one's saying Hamilton got the WDC stolen in 2007, Kimi earned that well and true. Lewis lost the WDC thanks to McLaren's part in mismanagement and having a backstabbing blackmailing teammate who ripped the team apart that year. That doesn't make it Kimi's fault.

Thanks, will accept your view on the subject of Kimi!! But, can't understand how you don't
apply the same analysis to Hamilton? If Kimi won on his own merit, then both Hamilton and
Alonso lost on their own steam, too, right?

Having said that, a little consistency would be greatly appreciated. Since this is the Alonso
thread and I do not appreciate the "naysayers" coming in to speculate/complain about what
may or may not have happened at McLaren that year. As far as I'm concerned, Ron Dennis
was grossly out of line and the FIA's expulsion of him seems to confirm that particular theory.
I do NOT appreciate Alonso being names based on pure speculation and conjecture and NO
facts, other than those that are chosen to support those theories.

[CookinFlat6]

Thanks, will accept your view on the subject of Kimi!! But, can't understand how you don't
apply the same analysis to Hamilton? If Kimi won on his own merit, then both Hamilton and
Alonso lost on their own steam, too, right?

Correct both Hamilton and Alonso lost to Kimi

and

the rookie Lewis still beat the 2x WDC Alonso

[sagi58]

...the rookie Lewis still beat the 2x WDC Alonso

Negativity towards the person in the title of the thread is ""apparently"" not allowed!!

[1Lemon]

...the rookie Lewis still beat the 2x WDC Alonso

Negativity towards the person in the title of the thread is ""apparently"" not allowed!!

That was never a rule in the Button thread.

[CookinFlat6]

...the rookie Lewis still beat the 2x WDC Alonso

Negativity towards the person in the title of the thread is ""apparently"" not allowed!!

...the rookie Lewis still beat the 2x WDC Alonso

Negativity towards the person in the title of the thread is ""apparently"" not allowed!!

That was never a rule in the Button thread.

Facts are always welcome as they can be educational and stimulate debate. Negative counter opinions without any factual backup in a 'celebration' thread are not conducive to good debate

[sagi58]

...the rookie Lewis still beat the 2x WDC Alonso

Negativity towards the person in the title of the thread is ""apparently"" not allowed!!

That was never a rule in the Button thread.

You're absolutely right! We need consistency, don't we?

[sagi58]

Facts are always welcome as they can be educational and stimulate debate. Negative counter opinions without any factual backup in a 'celebration' thread are not conducive to good debate

Facts are hard, concrete, irrefutable evidence, n'est pas?

Well, please provide the hard, concrete, irrefutable evidence that "everything negative"
that happened at McLaren in 2007 can be attributed to something Alonso did/said.

Speculation, conjecture, theory, opinion, etc. can be omitted.

Also, rather than assume that those who do not agree completely with whatever you
have to say are the "enemy" and must be on the receiving end of a verbal attack.

[Hammer278]

Sagi, the 'proof' is in the history books...Hamilton is 2nd, Alonso 3rd in equal cars, at the end of 2007.

If you can't accept this as 'proof', you'll accept nothing so why bother.

[spankyham]

Sagi, the 'proof' is in the history books...Hamilton is 2nd, Alonso 3rd in equal cars, at the end of 2007.

If you can't accept this as 'proof', you'll accept nothing so why bother.

Sagi asked for proof about who was responsible for all the negative things that happen at McLaren in 2007.

The history books show that Fernando beat Lewis every year he has driven for Ferrari. Last year he did it in a lower ranked team car, and did it quite convincingly.

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