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[Peng]

Vettel was not lucky. He obviously changed his strategy to a one-stopper in light of the team's botched pit stop. It was a fantastic call. And to see him hold off Alonso for several laps - every time he went round I was telling my younger brother that if Vettel made this stick, he would have to be acknowledged as the greatest driver out there.

You realize Vettel only had 1 option to winning the race and that was the 1 stop strategy right? he had lost the race on his 1st pitstop and where as most drivers races would have turned to s*** from than on his super luck struck and suddenly hes back in to win the race, nothing Vettel did helped him win the race infact you could claim Hamilton helped him win since the Maldonado incident pretty much gave Vettel a free ticket.

But several incidents that were in no way in Vettel's control contributed to him winning the race, i would call that luck you may call it skill or whatever Vettel fans want to claim when he apparently uses the power of a god to turn the race in his favour but at the end of the day he was no where near the best driver in that race even Alonso drove much better than him and deserved 1st place much more.

[What's Burning?]

Racing lesson 101: Leave the required space.

Webber had more than his fair share of space but understeered into Lewis and took him out.

MOnaco, half of Lewis' car was on the kerbs and Massa was still pushing him. For the sceptics, please watch a replay. Pay special attention to how much SPACE was available on the outside of Massa. He practically had a football field of space on his right, but stuck to squeezing Lewis in through the entire corner. It was pathetic, but its Massa so why am I so surprised.

Just a question mate, are you saying that if a driver behind sticks any part of the front of his car alongside the car ahead, the car ahead must give up the racing line? He must make way for the car behind? Does that make Massa also in the wrong in Monza last year?

There's a difference between defending, which the driver in front has every right to do, and for lack of a better word, counter attacking which is an unwillingness to yield at all costs and basically gambling that you'll come out on the winning end of whatever accident will clearly happen as part of your "defense". Webber comes to mind, what Massa did there clearly reeked of it as well but it's racing you made a decision and you stick to it, in this case they both lost on their respective gambles, and you move on.

We always go back and forth on these questionable passing attempts but the fact is that it's an art not a science and therefore there is very little black and white compared to all the gray area in between. Would have either the subsequent crash or the penalty been issue had Massa given way or had Lewis not made the desperate move in the first place? To compare that issue to anything else is pointless as this is Monaco, there is no passing ever that doesn't put your car at risk, the races boils down to blue flags, mistakes and pit stop strategies.

[vaptin]

Lewis charged up the inside, hoping Massa would give him extra space as Lewis was going to fast to meet the turning radius required to not hit Massa.

It looks like Massa took the corner as normal, but Lewis putting half his car over the kerbs of the hairpin, was clearly trying to create space that wasn't reachable.

[Peng]

there is no passing ever that doesn't put your car at risk

Exactly.

If you want overtaking there will always be a level of risk involved that will cause a crash.

If you give the defending car permission to close the gap no matter the cost every single time and always blame the attacking car than you may aswell remove overtaking from the sport.

[vaptin]

there is no passing ever that doesn't put your car at risk

Exactly.

If you want overtaking there will always be a level of risk involved that will cause a crash.

If you give the defending car permission to close the gap no matter the cost every single time and always blame the attacking car than you may aswell remove overtaking from the sport.

That's no argument, there's nothing that doesn't put your car at risk.

There's a difference between the level of risk for a collision, requiring the other driver to actively move out of your way and not giving them a lot of time to do so, is more likely than most passes to cause a collision.

[Peng]

there is no passing ever that doesn't put your car at risk

Exactly.

If you want overtaking there will always be a level of risk involved that will cause a crash.

If you give the defending car permission to close the gap no matter the cost every single time and always blame the attacking car than you may aswell remove overtaking from the sport.

That's no argument, there's nothing that doesn't put your car at risk.

There's a difference between the level of risk for a collision, requiring the other driver to actively move out of your way and not giving them a lot of time to do so, is more likely than most passes to cause a collision.

But in the incident against Massa it was Massa that closed the door and gave Lewis no time to react which is what caused the collision, Massa turned in when Hamilton was already committed to the corner, Massa could have quite easily taken the line which Webber (who was infront of him) did and no collision would have occurred but instead he decided to turn in early affectively cutting off any possible space Hamilton had and caused the crash.

I still say both were equally at fault i am not blaming Massa 100% but i think its a joke to say it was all Hamiltons fault for trying an overtake because it was risky.

There is more than enough space in that corner for 2 cars which was proven on lap 1, and even if Massa had given Hamilton space it wasn't a 100% guarantee he would be overtaken.

[billindenver]

Lewis charged up the inside, hoping Massa would give him extra space as Lewis was going to fast to meet the turning radius required to not hit Massa.

It looks like Massa took the corner as normal, but Lewis putting half his car over the kerbs of the hairpin, was clearly trying to create space that wasn't reachable.

[vaptin]

From the video, Webber took a tighter line in than Massa.

[scotty]

It's such a shame that Hamilton's utterly classless arrogance in that interview has detracted from a race as good as that. I couldn't put my contempt for that man into words - unbelievable actions yesterday.

Vettel - got mega lucky with those 'wrong' tyres and then the red flag made it easy for him.
Button - deserved the win i think.
Kobayashi - good stuff, really solid drive
Maldonado - driver of the day! He seems to be finding his feet a bit now in F1.
Pit Crews - was there something in the water? Very dodgy.

[kerc]

Pit Crews - was there something in the water? Very dodgy.

Aftermath of Friday's partying?

[F1er]

Lewis charged up the inside, hoping Massa would give him extra space as Lewis was going to fast to meet the turning radius required to not hit Massa.

It looks like Massa took the corner as normal, but Lewis putting half his car over the kerbs of the hairpin, was clearly trying to create space that wasn't reachable.

By that logic Senna is the worst overtaker in F1,and I'm not talking about Bruno.
We've witnessed the pussification of F1 reach a new level. Passing up the inside isn't allowed anymore

[F1er]

From the video, Webber took a tighter line in than Massa.

Are you sure?

[FRAFPDD]

From the video, Webber took a tighter line in than Massa.

Are you sure?

It doesnt excuse what i said about Hamilton on Maldonado, but this screenshot is damning to Massa.


Maybe Hamilton could have pulled that off, it is what he said Massa did in that interview of his.

Infact after watching hamilton on maldonado just now, did he actually do anything wrong in that grand prix?

[Yoruba]

Lewis charged up the inside, hoping Massa would give him extra space as Lewis was going to fast to meet the turning radius required to not hit Massa.

It looks like Massa took the corner as normal, but Lewis putting half his car over the kerbs of the hairpin, was clearly trying to create space that wasn't reachable.

By that logic Senna is the worst overtaker in F1,and I'm not talking about Bruno.
We've witnessed the pussification of F1 reach a new level. Passing up the inside isn't allowed anymore

Pussification is correct sir. It's all about safety now. Safety = 20 guys stepping inside of 20 open-top boxes going 200mph + lol. People like Hammy, schumy, alonso are a dying breed. It's what has saved F1 in the last couple of years. Bernie and rest should really be thanking these type of drivers for bringing the passion back into f1 and fattening their pockets as well. This is what F1 needs....people like Hammy. Not vaginas like Massa. Ferrari hired a waitress in Massa...all he does is take orders!

[Yoruba]

From the video, Webber took a tighter line in than Massa.

Are you sure?

do you have a video of this angle? I'd like to see Massa's hands...no one notices he defended twice trying to block Hammy; should have been penalised. This video clearly shows he was hoping to get tagged.