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[mnmracer]

There you go again so now I'm an idiot, I take it Nico Hulkenberg is also then considering he didn't see what NK did wrong? The only facts I need are the video footage, and from that it's clear as day it's a racing incident.

I'm showing you the video footage and you claim something completely different is happening than what is factually on tape. What do you call the images then? Artist impressions? I show you, from different angles, how NK moved over, and you just keep claiming he didn't. This is not about first impressions, this is about taking distortions out of the equation and looking at what actually happened.

And it being a racing incident has nothing to do with one or the other driver being responsible or not.

[bud]

NK did nothing wrong he can move slightly, it was slight movement no malice intended nor was it a move akin to holding position. .

Heres one fact you missed... Oh my mnmracer you duck up?? I have never said NK didn't move, You're making things up there, not very factual of you.

[mnmracer]

Is there even any point in showing how much he moved, or will it just be put down as "not video footage" or "opinion" again?

You also keep confusing deserving a penalty, malicious intent and simply figuring out who was at fault.

[darwin dali]

Steady now, lads...

[What's Burning?]

I can't wait to see who convinces who the other is right.

[mnmracer]

I can't wait to see who convinces who the other is right.

I won't have much trouble convincing bud that he is right

[bud]

I can't wait to see who convinces who the other is right.

I won't have much trouble convincing bud that he is right

You can talk

[zurich_allan]

Hang on a second - I'm not biased either way at all either, and all I have to add (and repeat, and will continue to repeat because it is relevant) is that none of whether NK moved, or SV didn't move (deviate is a more appropriate term) explains the single crucial FACT (to use your phrase mnmracer) that SV didn't take the normal racing line. He took a line that effectively squeezed NK. Talking about using video footage and frames etc. - well they conclusively prove this too...

As I have said, this was an unpredictable line, NOT a normal line, and had Vettel been taking the NORMAL racing line as every single other car on the straight was, the chances are that contact would not have happened. Taking this line at (roughly) 170mph leaving little time for any other car (whether it was NK or ANY other car) to ponder is simply not sensible. Also, overtaking at that point to begin with wasn't sensible.

Had Vettel done the mature and experienced thing and waited until the straight to make his move (possibly costing him all of 0.2 of a second) then we wouldn't be talking about this because it wouldn't have happened.

[mnmracer]

Hang on a second - I'm not biased either way at all either, and all I have to add (and repeat, and will continue to repeat because it is relevant) is that none of whether NK moved, or SV didn't move (deviate is a more appropriate term) explains the single crucial FACT (to use your phrase mnmracer) that SV didn't take the normal racing line. He took a line that effectively squeezed NK. Talking about using video footage and frames etc. - well they conclusively prove this too...

As I have said, this was an unpredictable line, NOT a normal line, and had Vettel been taking the NORMAL racing line as every single other car on the straight was, the chances are that contact would not have happened. Taking this line at (roughly) 170mph leaving little time for any other car (whether it was NK or ANY other car) to ponder is simply not sensible. Also, overtaking at that point to begin with wasn't sensible.

Had Vettel done the mature and experienced thing and waited until the straight to make his move (possibly costing him all of 0.2 of a second) then we wouldn't be talking about this because it wouldn't have happened.

Aside from the fact he left NK enough room to start with, where do you see squeezing?

[zurich_allan]

mnmracer, all you are proving though all of this debate is that you simply don't understand motorsport in general. He DID effectively squeeze NK as I said. NOT to the edge of the circuit, but off the racing line and onto the wet / marbles. By NOT maintaining the racing line, given that NK was on the outside of him, it meant that NK WAS being forced to take a line taking his car FULLY onto the dirty, oily, rubbery and wet part of the track. This was purely because Vettel stayed on the strange line he had taken.

You don't have to deviate in a lateral sense to squeeze someone from the racing line - taking a straight line but an abnormal one effectively does the same thing.

[andrew]

What exactly is the point of all this OTT analysis of one small incident? To try and justify Vettel's subsequent crying to the media or something?

...?

Is that a polite cough I hear Scotty?

[bud]

mnmracer, all you are proving though all of this debate is that you simply don't understand motorsport in general. He DID effectively squeeze NK as I said. NOT to the edge of the circuit, but off the racing line and onto the wet / marbles. By NOT maintaining the racing line, given that NK was on the outside of him, it meant that NK WAS being forced to take a line taking his car FULLY onto the dirty, oily, rubbery and wet part of the track. This was purely because Vettel stayed on the strange line he had taken.

You don't have to deviate in a lateral sense to squeeze someone from the racing line - taking a straight line but an abnormal one effectively does the same thing.

I agree with this, You're stating what I was by the term veering across. SV was on the inside of the track through the corner to get an overtaking move done, obviously to do this means you're off the racing line. He chose a straight line on the exit that would take him onto the racing line, problem was the point in which he would join the racing line was the same point where NK was.
Crude but illustrates what ZA and I are trying to get across. They converge


NK is on the racing line SV is not, his line out of the corner is where the problem was created.

[mnmracer]

The problem is, you keep thinking SV cut off NK on the racing line. He did not. The collision happened off the racing line.

By the time of the colision, not only had they not yet reached the point where the racing line turns right. By the time of the colision Karthikeyan was almost 5ft off the racing line.

[bud]

Sorry you can't use Hamiltons Pole lap as a reference as its in different conditions, completely dry and on a low fuel run. Compared to a changeable track which lost all the grip from the previous day due to the rain. The grip levels would have been poles apart pardon the pun.
NK was on the racing line for those conditions and he did not leave it so saying they didn't hit on it doesn't make sense.

[mnmracer]

Sorry you can't use Hamiltons Pole lap as a reference as its in different conditions, completely dry and on a low fuel run. Compared to a changeable track which lost all the grip from the previous day due to the rain. The grip levels would have been poles apart pardon the pun.
NK was on the racing line for those conditions and he did not leave it so saying they didn't hit on it doesn't make sense.

That's why I use both the racing line of the Marussia and of Hamilton. They both start veering at the same point: where the dark grass goes over to the light grass.

As you can see, the orange control line is at the Marussia's rear-tyres, yet at the same point, just in front of Karthikeyan's front tyres. So by the time the racing line starts veering from a car's rear tyres, Karthikeyan is already 5 foot next to it with his front tyres. Need I draw that out from above?