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[Hammer278]

Racing lesson 101: Leave the required space.

Webber had more than his fair share of space but understeered into Lewis and took him out.

MOnaco, half of Lewis' car was on the kerbs and Massa was still pushing him. For the sceptics, please watch a replay. Pay special attention to how much SPACE was available on the outside of Massa. He practically had a football field of space on his right, but stuck to squeezing Lewis in through the entire corner. It was pathetic, but its Massa so why am I so surprised.

[F1er]

Just wondering. If this was not hamilton's fault then what about in Singapore against webber? Hamilton was on the outside and turned in on Webber. Are the same people defending Hamilton that accused Webber of being dirty in Singapore?

No it's the same people accusing Lewis no matter what,when or where.

[spankyham]

Racing lesson 101: Leave the required space.

Webber had more than his fair share of space but understeered into Lewis and took him out.

MOnaco, half of Lewis' car was on the kerbs and Massa was still pushing him. For the sceptics, please watch a replay. Pay special attention to how much SPACE was available on the outside of Massa. He practically had a football field of space on his right, but stuck to squeezing Lewis in through the entire corner. It was pathetic, but its Massa so why am I so surprised.

Just a question mate, are you saying that if a driver behind sticks any part of the front of his car alongside the car ahead, the car ahead must give up the racing line? He must make way for the car behind? Does that make Massa also in the wrong in Monza last year?

[Hammer278]

That's probably the key question to the whole thing. I'd say the driver needs to commit to a corner if he's going to overtake. In this case, the driver in front requires the vigilance to give up the best racing line and make the space, as clearly the car behind is faster and is attempting the manouvre. You wouldn't be relenting the position, but simply giving the space, as the driver behind has committed into the corner. In the case of Massa, if he had simply made a little bit more space by sticking a bit wider, he would have had the easy inside line into the very next corner, thus successfully defending his position.

Going by the logic of "car in front deserves best line", you would assume the rear view mirrors are not required. Just remove them, since the guy in front can simply ignore the guy behind and take the best lines into every corner since, if any contact does take place, it is the fault of the overtaker.

I can't remember about Massa and Monza last year unfortunately. Got a link?

[nish2280]

Racing lesson 101: Leave the required space.

Webber had more than his fair share of space but understeered into Lewis and took him out.

MOnaco, half of Lewis' car was on the kerbs and Massa was still pushing him. For the sceptics, please watch a replay. Pay special attention to how much SPACE was available on the outside of Massa. He practically had a football field of space on his right, but stuck to squeezing Lewis in through the entire corner. It was pathetic, but its Massa so why am I so surprised.

EDIT: Hammer just mentioned what i was going to say above

[spankyham]

That's probably the key question to the whole thing. I'd say the driver needs to commit to a corner if he's going to overtake. In this case, the driver in front requires the vigilance to give up the best racing line and make the space, as clearly the car behind is faster and is attempting the manouvre. You wouldn't be relenting the position, but simply giving the space, as the driver behind has committed into the corner. In the case of Massa, if he had simply made a little bit more space by sticking a bit wider, he would have had the easy inside line into the very next corner, thus successfully defending his position.

Going by the logic of "car in front deserves best line", you would assume the rear view mirrors are not required. Just remove them, since the guy in front can simply ignore the guy behind and take the best lines into every corner since, if any contact does take place, it is the fault of the overtaker.

I can't remember about Massa and Monza last year unfortunately. Got a link?

I would have thought the mirrors are needed to defend. I'm very much of the view that the guy in front has the right to the line, the guy behind has to find a way around.

Also, IMHO, being faster doesn't give you any automatic right to a faster line, if that was the case, Vettel would have had to yield to Nando many times just before the red flag because Nando was clearly being held up by him at that stage.

Also, what was your take on Nando/Kubica at Silverstone last year? Are you saying the Kube should have yielded?

For me, a pass is a move that has a realistic chance of sticking, that means you've got to get level or ahead before either car turns/changes direction, on top of that you've also got to be able to complete the pass without going off track after.

Lewis/Felipe Monza 2010 (can't believe you didn't remember this one )
[youtube]_jJsk2VKISU[/youtube]

[Hammer278]

Ah! Of course I remember that one....you could've just said "1 of Lewis' major f*** ups".

A great case in point, watch what Lewis did. He committed into the corner and understeered into Massa. He had his space and more, Massa never 'closed the door' on him there. Lewis' fault 100%.

For me, a pass is a move that has a realistic chance of sticking, that means you've got to get level or ahead before either car turns/changes direction, on top of that you've also got to be able to complete the pass without going off track after.

Do you think there is any chance in hell for the overtaker to be 'level' with his opponent on a track like MOnaco? There's many instances where they are not level but the space has been given and both cars survive with not much issue.

Different philosophies here. I would stick with, give the space to a car which is 'going for it'. If you dont, its going to be close...or you're going to touch. However, if the car 'going for it' outbrakes itself, and takes up more than the space it requires and hits the car its trying to overtake, driver would deserve a drive through - overtakers fault.

[spankyham]

Ah! Of course I remember that one....you could've just said "1 of Lewis' major f*** ups".

A great case in point, watch what Lewis did. He committed into the corner and understeered into Massa. He had his space and more, Massa never 'closed the door' on him there. Lewis' fault 100%.

For me, a pass is a move that has a realistic chance of sticking, that means you've got to get level or ahead before either car turns/changes direction, on top of that you've also got to be able to complete the pass without going off track after.

Do you think there is any chance in hell for the overtaker to be 'level' with his opponent on a track like MOnaco? There's many instances where they are not level but the space has been given and both cars survive with not much issue.

Different philosophies here. I would stick with, give the space to a car which is 'going for it'. If you dont, its going to be close...or you're going to touch. However, if the car 'going for it' outbrakes itself, and takes up more than the space it requires and hits the car its trying to overtake, driver would deserve a drive through - overtakers fault.

Understand what you're saying. Can't agree, I think they guy in front is usually there because he's earned the spot, so, he has the upper hand. It is hard to overtake at Monaco, but not impossible, and even if it were, impossible, it doesn't suddenly mean the rules don't apply. Once this became a incident to investigate, the decision they came to was inevitable.

Having said all that, yy view on most incidents is that it's part of racing. Personally I wish the stewards didn't get involved anywhere near as often as they do. The problem is, they want to stick their noses into every racing incident (this is partly fueled by the media and commentators who seem to need to have something to get worked up about every 5 minutes or so). For me, in racing, there will inevitably be contact. Let the drivers sort it out, and I'd leave 99% of incidents at that. When an irresistible force meets immovable object sh1t sometimes happens. If neither yields then they both know it's going to turn out badly for at least one of them, and possibly both - they both know that at the time - leave it with them. That is racing.

[Hammer278]

I'd agree with your last paragraph whole heartedly. These are open wheelers, incidents DO happen and part and parcel of the sport. The stewards are being bloody primary school discipline teachers with the way they handle the incidents. If 2 stubborn individuals go head to head, it could end in tears for one, why does that mean the other MUST be punished? Totally ridiculous.

[Hammer278]

Hamilton apologises for joke

McLaren Lewis Hamilton says he apologised to the stewards for the joke he made in reference to why he had been penalised following the Monaco Grand Prix.

Hamilton was interviewed immediately after returning from the stewards for having to explain his part in a collision with Pastor Maldonado. He was subsequently given a 20 second time penalty, but before the penalty had been handed out Hamilton was asked by the BBC why he felt he was being victimised by the stewards and responded with "Maybe because I'm black, that's what Ali G says…"

The comment was a joke referencing the character portrayed by comedian Sacha Baron Cohen, but Hamilton said he went back to the stewards to ensure there was no misunderstanding.

"They said at the end that they would make sure other people in the FIA understand," Hamilton said. "They said that for anybody who has heard it and misunderstood, that they'll clarify it with them and it won't go any further than the meeting room. But what I said was a bit of a joke, which wasn't funny at the time.

"I made them aware that when emotions are high, and it's very intense at the end of those kinds of races, you don't always say the right thing, and the joke didn't come at the most appropriate time. So I went there, made that clear to them, we've made our peace.

"They accepted my explanation, they understood. They said 'We've all competed before and we understand the passion, where you are coming from', and we all shook hands afterwards. The weekend was tough, I feel like I've had everything thrown at me, and I've managed to catch it and deal with it the best I could."


GROUP HUG MOFOS!!!!

lol

[FRAFPDD]

I cannot believe I have managed to read through 38 pages of posts! Very proud of myself.

Last year this forum was ranting and raving about Vettel and his... erm... over-exuberant driving style. How can Hamilton be defended for his actions both during and after this race?

I was shocked to see Hamilton making contact with Massa BEFORE even turning into that corner, and then apparently proceeding to drive Massa into the wall. How can you say Massa drove into you in that situation?

Hamilton could perhaps be accused of breaking too heavily and subsequently affecting Algeursuari's and Petrov's race.

And his move on Maldonado was absolutely diabolical!

However, I had nothing but ADMIRATION for Hamilton on his overtake of Massa in the tunnel. I have never seen such bravery in my life. He forced Massa into that mistake. (Although perhaps Massa didn't want to get in his way again after what happened a few corners before.)

There were times when Hamilton was absolutely breathtaking, like with his pass on Schumacher, but also times when he was clumsy.

Vettel was not lucky. He obviously changed his strategy to a one-stopper in light of the team's botched pit stop. It was a fantastic call. And to see him hold off Alonso for several laps - every time he went round I was telling my younger brother that if Vettel made this stick, he would have to be acknowledged as the greatest driver out there.

You could see quite clearly he was using the same defensive driving style in Catalunya that Johnny Herbert was raving about. Every time he'd come out of the final corner, he'd ensure that he'd have just enough of a gap to hold off Alonso into the first corner, who had DRS. It was fantastic just watching how Vettel would construct his laps, when Alonso and Button were quite clearly faster than him. He was successfully managing his KERS (which he didn't have in Spain).

So far this year Vettel has been a complete driver. He has won races on skill, and qualified well. But he has also picked up the pieces and made use of some unfortunate circumstances at times (aka luck). He has fended off some cars that were a lot faster than him. He can control the pace of the race, and make awesome strategy calls (China show's him and his team ARE human). You're watching the most talented driver out there. This will be championship number 2 out of 5, maybe 10 in total throughout his career?

This also puts all the Vettel-favouritism claims last year to bed.

Also when you compare Algeursuari's weekend with Ricciardo's, you can see that the Australian will be getting a race seat soon.

Dont take advantage of this current furore over Hamilton by covering Vettel in your own sticky man goo.

I see youve done what most of you cant acknowledge TODAY that Vettel was lucky to win, his strategy was very poor and Alonso got closer and closer to overtaking and there was 6 laps left, for all we know he could of put it in the wall with a burst tyre. Nonetheless, until whatever point it was Vettel was dominating the race and he deserves that in its entirety, with his race wins and current form its strange not to suggest hes one of the best drivers today, but Keke Rosberg was nothing special he won championship in dominating fashion in a very good car. If you cant admit that car is above and beyond any other then.......your not really being fair. Vettel doesnt have to do that much to win races. Hes not that good that he can wipe Alonso and Hamilton with the floor at will. But i must say as a final note, hes done soooo much this year compared to any other to make me think he is something else.

[FRAFPDD]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I find it ironic that Lewis is getting ripped apart by certain forum members for wearing his feelings on his sleeve and overly hyperbolizing.

Pot, meet kettle.

Its the usual haters, whats new. Oh and Fraffy, but he has a love/hate rship with those he supports for some strange reason.

I never hate Hamilton, my venting is that of a loving mother of a sometimes wayward child. Im not convincing you am i?

The main reason i have a go at him (sometimes of course) is cause he does nothing to quell the nuclear missile of hate he receives from so many people, these comments and this race dont do much to help. Thats all i care about, Hamilton is the best driver ive ever seen, the cars brake shorter and accelerate/lap faster then any other and still he manages to outbrake and overtake a will, hes also super fast. But its an absolute drrrrraaaggg all this hate he gets and i naively think it might sometime end. Its also annoying as fudge despite it being and always has been the nature of F1 that the best drivers arent winning titles. Sorry if that upsets Vettels fans lol, The years just seem to be ticking away and wtf Mclaren are doing i dont know, they need to make a good car. Our only hope for this year at least is that the EBD from Silverstone hits Reb Bull right in the Kisser.

[LewEngBridewell]

Pirelli wants Formula 1 teams to be prevented from changing tyres if a race is stopped by a red flag. The tyre manufacturer said Sunday's Monaco Grand Prix was robbed of a thrilling climax after a stoppage caused by Vitaly Petrov's accident allowed the front three drivers Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button to change rubber. This effectively turned the result into a foregone conclusion, with the top three cruising to the chequered flag in a procession.

[vaptin]

Pirelli wants Formula 1 teams to be prevented from changing tyres if a race is stopped by a red flag. The tyre manufacturer said Sunday's Monaco Grand Prix was robbed of a thrilling climax after a stoppage caused by Vitaly Petrov's accident allowed the front three drivers Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button to change rubber. This effectively turned the result into a foregone conclusion, with the top three cruising to the chequered flag in a procession.

I'm surprised that wasn't already the case. The FIA are so strict nowdays on what the teams can do with their cars (apart from redbull's kers between qualifying and the race ), durning a race you have to take a pitstop to work on the car, so you clearly lose time. Here it was a free change.

And it ruined the end of the race Was really looking forward to seeing what would happen.

Judging from the snippets I heard, redbull were bricking it with Vettel, and Ferrari seemed the most confident. Just before the redflag Kravitz reported "Mclaren reckon Vettel has two more laps before his tyres fall of the cliff".

Good race though, I'm sorry about the incidents (note, this isn't me admitting blame for them ).

Good start from Alonso again, and some more struggling from Webber.

Kobayashi gets driver of the day award I think, 5th is his best ever result in f1.

Schumacher's starting to look pretty good now.

Ok, as for Hamilton, sorry terrible behaviour. I think he was lucky his punishment for the second collision was only 20 seconds, should have been cumulative. Twice for virtually the same thing in the same race? And he's still not repentant, he didn't have the room with Massa there.

[Peng]

To people that doubt how it's done look no further than..............
Shumi vs Lewis
Lewis vs Shumi

Massa would rather die than be passed. And true racing is dead,thus we have DRS and KERS so overtaking is a formality and people that actually know how are punished.

Knowing how means not colliding with those you are passing...as the damage may well be your car instead of theirs. Want to see how it's not done, watch Vettel on Webber last year or Lewis on Massa this morning.

Seriously don't understand how you can compare those 2 incidents :/

Go watch the Vettel+Webber incident again if you are referring to the Turkey crash, Webber was defending and gave Vettel space and Vettel turned into Webber for whatever stupid reason he had for wanting more space, both cars had more than enough space to take the corner and Webber actually did the correct thing and tried keeping out of the way to avoid a crash.

I wonder if you actually watch F1 or just like trolling so much that you just post random and hope people don't notice.

With Lewis and Massa it was the defending car who turned in a basically cut off any chance of avoiding a crash, i have already accepted that Hamilton deserved a penalty (even if i don't agree with it) but i hope the stewards are going to be consistent from now on than and give penalties for any race incident even if its just 2 wheels touching because thats what they have done in this race.

Or just stop being retards and accept that cars will touch and racing incidents will happen in a goddamn racing sport.