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[CookinFlat6]

Red Bull want to produce a nicely packaged fairy tale. Why have the best 2 drivers around in your car when there can only be 1 winner. Why bother with champions? Unlike FW, let the same guy drive each year, relegate his teammate to water carrier, have the car appear to be just a bit better than the rest when its really much better.

I guess with drinks companies the packaging and story is more important that the content although to be fair Ferrari and MS started the whole Pop idol 'lets create a legend' approach.

And Merc will be doing it as well, the difference being they have 2 competitive drivers allowed to compete

[racechick]

I guess if Red Bull had taken in Lewis ( when he was completely pissed of with the Whitmarsh /Button McLaren) or Kimi now, or Alonso, any time......it would have shown up Vettel and red Bull for what they really are. A superbly fast car.....obscenely fast car, with a good driver. They don't need outstanding drivers, great drivers, just good ones. Well one good one really, and one emasculated one.

[sagi58]

Because that was the most recent and extended ones.

With Williams for example there was not one driver taking the spoils year after year.

So, it wasn't "really" comparable?

I would ask the flip side of you, doesn't it hurt to see that greatest most traditional, winningest and red, team there ever was lose year after year to a dominant Red Bull?

In spite of believing that to be a rhetorical question, I will respond: Obviously!!
BUT, I'm not worried, I know La Rossa will be back on top, again!!

[Roth]

I guess with drinks companies the packaging and story is more important that the content although to be fair Ferrari and MS started the whole Pop idol 'lets create a legend' approach.

Spot on Cookin

The GP world seems to be split up into the political and the racer. By and large the political drivers have greater success - Prost, Piquet, MS, Their force of will off the track seems stronger than the racer. They are more calculating, less prone to hot headeness, but do show desparation when threatened, and it will seem out of character. They are becoming extinct though.

The racer seems to just want to let their racecraft do the work. Hamilton, Mansell, Webber, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Button. They'll wear their heart on their sleave, and cause more ripples to less effect, because it's a negative energy.

Alonso and Senna probably fall between the two.

Vettel may be the first of a new generation - the passive champion. He is an instrument to Red Bull's success because they will it, not because he exerts his influence from within the team. He's number one because they choose it. He looks political, and it would be the logical conclusion, because that's how it's gone in the past. However, it's not natural to him, he falls into a no-mans land, so Vettel comes across as, well, Vettel.

Maybe people want to see racers winning because that's by and large what we have left. All the behind the scenes money, pay-drives, that's where the power is, not Prost stealing Mansell's car because it's quicker.

[racechick]

I think. Button definately belongs in the politicking camp not the racer camp..........apart from the having more success bit.

[Roth]

Maybe he falls between the two. He's a positioner. He's not ruthless and nasty enough to be out and out politician.

[racechick]

Maybe he falls between the two. He's a positioner. He's not ruthless and nasty enough to be out and out politician.

No he's more of sneaky operator rather than an out and out baddy. He's a 'watch your back' sort of guy. Maybe he needs his own category.

[CookinFlat6]

Button is in a special category Not fast enough to win innormal circumstances, not clever enough to avoid losing costly political and legal battles with bosses, when conditions are perfect he is in a class of its own


at disturbing hapless TPs

[Hammer278]

Dejected Hamilton baulked by Massa

Lewis Hamilton said he had "a pretty poor race" in the Indian Grand Prix and that a failure to pass Felipe Massa cost him dear.

Having started from third place, Hamilton was up in to second going in to Turn 3 but was fourth behind Massa and team-mate Nico Rosberg by Turn 4. While Rosberg managed to jump the Ferrari later in the race to finish second, Hamilton never found a way past and ended up dropping back to sixth, a result which left him dejected after the race.

"On our side it's good that we got some points but a pretty poor race from myself," Hamilton said. "It felt OK; it didn't feel anything special. It was a pretty bad race as you can see, but these kind of things happen, we've got a couple more races ahead of us and we've just got to keep pushing."

"It was so hard to get past the Ferrari and I just tried to hang in there and try to get past but in doing so I destroyed the tyres."

Asked if there was anything in the car which made him feel Mercedes could win again this season, Hamilton replied: "Maybe on Nico's side, maybe."

________________________________________

Isn't this quite a sore loser comment from Lewis? Unless I completely misunderstood, I'd expect a lot more from him.

[Roth]

See, he's a racer, a whinger, easily dejected. Not a good look, Lewis, but atleast you're honest.

[LRW]

This side of Hamilton I really dislike. Its like he has BiPolar. His mood's are from one extreme to the other. It felt like they needed to remove his belt and shoe laces from him the way he was talking.

The guy finished 6th. It wasnt a complete disaster, and he needs to look at the positives:

-He gained some ok points
-He finished ahead of Alonso and Raikkonen!

[LewEngBridewell]

That's a bit of a poor comment from Lewis. But he's thrown similar tantrums before, so I'm not really surprised.

[bud]

This side of Hamilton I really dislike. Its like he has BiPolar. His mood's are from one extreme to the other. It felt like they needed to remove his belt and shoe laces from him the way he was talking.

The guy finished 6th. It wasnt a complete disaster, and he needs to look at the positives:

-He gained some ok points
-He finished ahead of Alonso and Raikkonen!

He does seem that way at times but he just has high expectations from himself, I think he expects to move forward from his qualifying position and not backwards every race, and if he does he is a failure.

[racechick]

This side of Hamilton I really dislike. Its like he has BiPolar. His mood's are from one extreme to the other. It felt like they needed to remove his belt and shoe laces from him the way he was talking.

The guy finished 6th. It wasnt a complete disaster, and he needs to look at the positives:

-He gained some ok points
-He finished ahead of Alonso and Raikkonen!

But it's not good enough for him is it. He's better than that and he knows it. And he can't help showing how he feels. On the nici comment...I didn't hear that . But earlier in the weekend he'd said they were having some issues that maybe Nico had experienced before with the car and he was dealing with it better. maybe that's what he was referring to.

The race itself from him wasn't great but again he was unlucky. He made a good start and got into second, then on turn(4 was it?) Vetel, who was only just ahead either braked suddenly, made an error, or something an Lewis took avoiding action, that let Massa and Nico through and Vettel just sailed off. From then on the race was doomed, it was like a chain reaction. Nico got first pitstop( as he should have done) and it jumped him past Massa but they couldn't do it with Hamilton. They were also covering getting stuck behind Grosjean. Then Lewis didn't have the straight line speed to take Massa and running in dirty air all that time damaged his last set of tyres so he was unable to fight Perez.
Had he not had to take that avoiding action when Vettel did his error, then he would likely have finished second where Rosberg did. On such small things do races turn.
I didn't watch the after race talk, so I didn't hear Lewis being downbeat. I turned off after Vettel declared on the podium that he had become one of the greats
Lewis was ok on twitter later in the evening.

[Jabberwocky]

Do you not think all F1 drivers are almost child like how they cope with emotions? They all get stroppy when things don't go their way

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