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[LRW]

Thats much better.

[Jabberwocky]

I think formula 1 is moving into a new era. The old guard is moving on ron dennis, frank williams, bernie ecclestone. Other things are needed to run things. It is no longer an entrepreneurs sport.

Flavio was the 1st man to my mind that started the change

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[What's Burning?]

New car caviar four star day dream think I'll buy me an F1 team.

[darwin dali]

I think formula 1 is moving into a new era. The old guard is moving on ron dennis, frank williams, bernie ecclestone. Other things are needed to run things. It is no longer an entrepreneurs sport.

Flavio was the 1st man to my mind that started the change

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

Let's make this thread a bit more popular again:

[sagi58]

Sagi, Ferrari and Merc are the only 2 manufacturers with reputations and cars to sell throwing big money at this

Let's not forget that Ferrari has a reputation to uphold in F1...

((Dumb question of the day: Has Mercedes been "this" involved in F1, in the past? That is, did they have their own team? ))

[sagi58]

I can appreciate that so many F1 fans are not Schumi fans; but, to denigrate his experience, his input,
his ability/capability and his contribution to F1 whilst building up other drivers just seems to be a case
of "sour grapes"! Much like the attitude so many fans have against Vettel! And, against so many others
including Hamilton and Kimi!

In spite of his "less than spectacular" return, Schumi is still the measuring stick that many drivers hold
up to determine what sort of success they have had! We fans do the same thing, we compare preferred
drivers to him and insist on finding him lacking, yet, whenever the opportunity presents itself, we do it
again and again. At the end of the day, much of what we opine is very obviously nothing more than
speculative, since we don't know anything that happens behind closed doors, nor do we actually know
any of these drivers personally, let alone well!!

[Roth]

MS1 was the best driver of his era, and his sustained success was an excpetional achievement, but there's ways and means of achieving that success. He was good enough for a good few of those crowns without the crap. It's the crap people don't like. That's why fans are reacting negatively.

When the odds are so stacked in your favour the results begin to lose meaning. I said on another thread that Red Bull have ruined F1 of the past few yrs after it looked so promising, post MS. Competitive teams and a half dozen very talented drivers who you wouldn't have minded seeing become WDC. It could have been gen y's answer to the '80s. Now the MS/Ferrari model has taken over as a benchmark, which is great for Vettel and his handful of fans but it's all a bit meaningless. When your fellow drivers don't show you respect as a 4xWDC, and fans are booing, you know there's a problem.

[CookinFlat6]

Sagi, Ferrari and Merc are the only 2 manufacturers with reputations and cars to sell throwing big money at this

Let's not forget that Ferrari has a reputation to uphold in F1...

((Dumb question of the day: Has Mercedes been "this" involved in F1, in the past? That is, did they have their own team? ))

Sag1, Daimler(Mercedes) Benz invented the motorcar as we know it. The were the (pre) F1 European grand prix grandees before the war and way before Ferrari. In fact Ferrari was a garigista using Alfa Romeo engines, when Merc were a manufacturer. The 'Silver Arrows' disapperead with 2nd world war, came back after to dominate again, then pulled out because there was a big crash with their car killing many many spectators.

Since then they have dominated other series and came back in F1 to supply McLaren with engines, they are now their won team again. Most importantly they are now a maker of low volume 200k supercars, like Ferrari and the best way to sell these cars is to have F1 success in leu of advertising.
Ferrari have seriously profited from F1 association selling its road cars for massive profits. No one else can really exploit that space apart from Merc who can revive old glories and enhance their sportscar brand

So high stakes that justify a big investment in F1 as long as they dominate.

[racechick]

Well said guys, both the above two points hit the nail on the head for me regarding Schumacher/ Vettel and the might of Mercedes.

[sagi58]

Sagi, Ferrari and Merc are the only 2 manufacturers with reputations and cars to sell throwing big money at this

Let's not forget that Ferrari has a reputation to uphold in F1...

((Dumb question of the day: Has Mercedes been "this" involved in F1, in the past? That is, did they have their own team? ))

Sag1, Daimler(Mercedes) Benz invented the motorcar as we know it. The were the (pre) F1 European grand prix grandees before the war and way before Ferrari. In fact Ferrari was a garigista using Alfa Romeo engines, when Merc were a manufacturer. The 'Silver Arrows' disapperead with 2nd world war, came back after to dominate again, then pulled out because there was a big crash with their car killing many many spectators.

Since then they have dominated other series and came back in F1 to supply McLaren with engines, they are now their won team again. Most importantly they are now a maker of low volume 200k supercars, like Ferrari and the best way to sell these cars is to have F1 success in leu of advertising.
Ferrari have seriously profited from F1 association selling its road cars for massive profits. No one else can really exploit that space apart from Merc who can revive old glories and enhance their sportscar brand

So high stakes that justify a big investment in F1 as long as they dominate.

Thank you!!

So... next "dumb question"... How long will Mercedes stay "this" time, if they don't dominate?

p.s. I realize some people use the word "garagista" in a derogatory manner; but, everyone has to start somewhere!
In fact, building an empire such as Ferrari out of a "garage" is something to be proud of and applauded!!

[sagi58]

Here's another dumb question (maybe I should start a new thread? ) :

IF it were your favourite/preferred driver/team that was having such success, would it really be boring for you?

[What's Burning?]

For me? Yeah. 2010 was competitive, 2012 was competitive. 2011, 2013 not so much. I think you'd agree to at least that. I'd be less than enthused and I'd certainly not be claiming divine ability as the primary reason for that domination if it was a driver/team I supported.

[What's Burning?]

No one else can really exploit that space apart from Merc who can revive old glories.

If only Porsche chose to amuse me so.

[CookinFlat6]

Here's another dumb question (maybe I should start a new thread? ) :

IF it were your favourite/preferred driver/team that was having such success, would it really be boring for you?

Absolutely, if Nico was obviously nobbled to the extent that he was even allowed anywhere near lewis on track, and Lewis won from lights to flag each race and never produced any drama. We all know what we like watching, I like seeing drama and then the best man on the day prevailing, not some snot faced brat with a magic 2 sec boost button who then sticks his finger in your face to remind you his car is number 1 for good measure

Almost all Lewis' wins are hard fought and involve drama, even when he qualifies at the front he finds a way to drop back and provide drama

So... next "dumb question"... How long will Mercedes stay "this" time, if they don't dominate?

p.s. I realize some people use the word "garagista" in a derogatory manner; but, everyone has to start somewhere!
In fact, building an empire such as Ferrari out of a "garage" is something to be proud of and applauded!!

As long as it makes business sense IMO they would stay, people have this knee jerk reaction to merc quitting when things are not perfect. The first time was WW2 and they didnt really have a choice, second time was when a big accident happened, and being german, they were probably sensitive with being associated with mass deaths, the third time.....
As far as Garagista, I am not sure where you get the idea, maybe because a famous team boss denigrated someone as 'garagista'you might want to look into that. Anyway, when I use the term its just to illustrae that Ferrari started as a garagista then became a fully fledged manufacturer. And I am sure Daimler built his first car out of a garage, but was a manufacturer together with Audi and so with more resources. Today its like comparing Ferrari - established manufacturer with deep pockets with Sauber, a garagista in classic fashion.

[CookinFlat6]

No one else can really exploit that space apart from Merc who can revive old glories.

If only Porsche chose to amuse me so.

Porsche do not need any F1 association to sell its cars as they already have the brand and history of being the best motorsport company ever anywhere. In fact IMHO F1 would lower their tone. Something high tech and endurance would be great, like LMP

Porsche practically reverse tookover VW but found a bitter taste