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[Hammer278]

Honestly guys, is this a forum or a 10 year old chatroom? Porsche, Ferrari, they are all sh*t. BMW is where it's at because I drive one.

Do I sound stupid or what? Can we get back to WHY Ferrari should be DSQ for the next 5 years? Alright??

[AKR]

haha youre still at it, if its ok for you to make accusations about me mate then guess what i am skinnier fitter and better looking and get more attention from women than you would ever get!!! Youre just an old wannabe racer who buys a porsche in his 50s after years of working in a factory getting umpalumpa from prostitutes out back just so finally one day he can pretend he is a racer!

top job HillBilly!

You get attention from women because you look good? really. I don't see it like that and I am an attractive woman.

[Hammer278]

haha youre still at it, if its ok for you to make accusations about me mate then guess what i am skinnier fitter and better looking and get more attention from women than you would ever get!!! Youre just an old wannabe racer who buys a porsche in his 50s after years of working in a factory getting umpalumpa from prostitutes out back just so finally one day he can pretend he is a racer!

top job HillBilly!

You get attention from women because you look good? really. I don't see it like that and I am an attractive woman.

That's great AKR, let's get to know each other. I'm sure we can sort out our differences.

Anything to stop this crazy toddler bickering...

[What's Burning?]

THIS THREAD HAS OFFICIALLY HIT ROCK BOTTOM.

[AKR]

I think I am done with this topic. Lets all just learn to agree to disaagree. We can all argue until blue in the face but it wont change anything. By the way Bill I did the wrong thing in argeeing with you or laughing at your comments. I saw later what you said to bud and it wasn't really all that nice. I have stuck all my points to my argument about comparin g to the WRC etc. Bud has tried to prove me wrong which he has every right to do so. Lets all stick to the topic please or otherwise call it quits and move on.

[Hammer278]

I see bud has changed his fingerprint. I'm concerned.

Other than that, why can't people accept that things in Rally are just different....they don't race against each other just the clock. And is it so hard to see that team orders are BANNED in Formula 1...and not banned in Rally. Ferrari broke a rule and has cost the sport a very bad name. That's all that matters.

[billindenver]

I see bud has changed his fingerprint. I'm concerned.

Other than that, why can't people accept that things in Rally are just different....they don't race against each other just the clock. And is it so hard to see that team orders are BANNED in Formula 1...and not banned in Rally. Ferrari broke a rule and has cost the sport a very bad name. That's all that matters.

I'll concede to that, if you will concede that Hamilton's WDC which he received because of a team order for Heiki to move aside should be removed. If ferrari telling Massa he was slow (causing him to move over) is bad, then the exact same wording and effect from McLaren must also be bad. You condemn the McLaren team order that cheated Lewis into a driving championship...and I'll do the same of Ferrari's team order. Fair enough?

You first.

[Hammer278]

I'll concede to the fact that McLaren were fortunate in obtaining the WDC when they were focusing on that particular race to strengthen their WCC status in the championship. It is a strong case to argue with, no matter true or not.

What Ferrari did was blatant, favouring 1 driver over the other. Simple as.

[billindenver]

I'll concede to the fact that McLaren were fortunate in obtaining the WDC when they were focusing on that particular race to strengthen their WCC status in the championship. It is a strong case to argue with, no matter true or not.

What Ferrari did was blatant, favouring 1 driver over the other. Simple as.

Are you saying that McLaren were not blatantly favoring Lewis over Heiki? Just looking for some clarification here. The two incidents are so blatantly identical as to be a good basis for this discussion. Both teams number two driver was ahead. Both teams advised that driver that they were slower than their team mate but did not order them to move over. Both drivers gave way. Both number ones went on to win the race. McLaren also won a WDC which if there is any justice at all in the world, Ferrari will not. Still, very similar events....so if this latest one is the travesty some are saying...they must also condemn the other....as they both took place under the same rule.

If Heiki came forward today and said he was given team orders to help Lewis in any way possible including giving up positions....would the official team members in here then agree that the WDC should be stripped? An interesting topic to discuss. My opinion is that there are some who will never admit wrong doing by their team even if it is admitted by the team themselves. Their self worth is too attached to their chosen teams. It is not uncommon in all sports...but it's an interesting phenomenon that I've never participated in. Perhaps because I don't have a favorite team or a favorite driver....I just like the racing.

[f1ea]

I'll concede to the fact that McLaren were fortunate in obtaining the WDC when they were focusing on that particular race to strengthen their WCC status in the championship. It is a strong case to argue with, no matter true or not.

What Ferrari did was blatant, favouring 1 driver over the other. Simple as.

Are you saying that McLaren were not blatantly favoring Lewis over Heiki? Just looking for some clarification here. The two incidents are so blatantly identical as to be a good basis for this discussion. Both teams number two driver was ahead. Both teams advised that driver that they were slower than their team mate but did not order them to move over. Both drivers gave way. Both number ones went on to win the race. McLaren also won a WDC which if there is any justice at all in the world, Ferrari will not. Still, very similar events....so if this latest one is the travesty some are saying...they must also condemn the other....as they both took place under the same rule.

If Heiki came forward today and said he was given team orders to help Lewis in any way possible including giving up positions....would the official team members in here then agree that the WDC should be stripped? An interesting topic to discuss. My opinion is that there are some who will never admit wrong doing by their team even if it is admitted by the team themselves. Their self worth is too attached to their chosen teams. It is not uncommon in all sports...but it's an interesting phenomenon that I've never participated in. Perhaps because I don't have a favorite team or a favorite driver....I just like the racing.

End of.

No need to keep going over and over what is so extremely simple to see, except by the 2-face brigade.

[Hammer278]

billin...honestly I'm getting tired of this scenario. That McLaren scenario has been talked about over....and over....and over again in this thread.

It all comes down to the argument you can put forward....McLaren have a case saying Lewis had the pace to get more points for the team and Heikki was hampering that progress.

In Ferraris case, they had achieved the maximum as a team. But they went above the line by blatantly favouring one driver instead of just letting them do the racing.

[Hammer278]

I'll concede to the fact that McLaren were fortunate in obtaining the WDC when they were focusing on that particular race to strengthen their WCC status in the championship. It is a strong case to argue with, no matter true or not.

What Ferrari did was blatant, favouring 1 driver over the other. Simple as.

Are you saying that McLaren were not blatantly favoring Lewis over Heiki? Just looking for some clarification here. The two incidents are so blatantly identical as to be a good basis for this discussion. Both teams number two driver was ahead. Both teams advised that driver that they were slower than their team mate but did not order them to move over. Both drivers gave way. Both number ones went on to win the race. McLaren also won a WDC which if there is any justice at all in the world, Ferrari will not. Still, very similar events....so if this latest one is the travesty some are saying...they must also condemn the other....as they both took place under the same rule.

If Heiki came forward today and said he was given team orders to help Lewis in any way possible including giving up positions....would the official team members in here then agree that the WDC should be stripped? An interesting topic to discuss. My opinion is that there are some who will never admit wrong doing by their team even if it is admitted by the team themselves. Their self worth is too attached to their chosen teams. It is not uncommon in all sports...but it's an interesting phenomenon that I've never participated in. Perhaps because I don't have a favorite team or a favorite driver....I just like the racing.

End of.

No need to keep going over and over what is so extremely simple to see, except by the 2-face brigade.

I don't see many posts of yours which implies you qualify as a judge f1ea...

[vaptin]

billin...honestly I'm getting tired of this scenario. That McLaren scenario has been talked about over....and over....and over again in this thread.

It all comes down to the argument you can put forward....McLaren have a case saying Lewis had the pace to get more points for the team and Heikki was hampering that progress.

In Ferraris case, they had achieved the maximum as a team. But they went above the line by blatantly favouring one driver instead of just letting them do the racing.

WDC.

[bud]

ok ill concede McLaren stopped Heikki from winning the German GP in 2008 just as Ferrari stopped Massa from winning the German GP in 2010!

Totally the same scenarios!

[Hammer278]

ok ill concede McLaren stopped Heikki from winning the German GP in 2008 just as Ferrari stopped Massa from winning the German GP in 2010!

Totally the same scenarios!

Did you know Heikki wasn't leading the race and wasn't making up anytime whatsoever on the guys in front of him?