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[sagi58]

Here's an excerpt, from James Allen, which includes graphs. Although, they take pains not to agree with di Montezemolo,
they also leave room for debate:

 wrote:">Analysis of Mercedes’ form in last three races

...In Budapest, despite the high temperatures. Mercedes demonstrated tyre degradation in line with the average for the field. It was clear from Budapest that the new Pirelli tyre suits the Mercedes much better, so the indications are they will be strong for the rest of this season, although a note of caution; we still need to see how the tyres cope with high lateral loads on tracks like Spa and Suzuka.

The three race comparison graph (below) of the British, German and Hungarian GPs, it is clear that there were still issues in Silverstone (red plot) and Germany (blue plot) but it’s extremely difficult to extract any definitive facts or trends here, bar the fact the overall race pace of Hamilton at Budapest looks more consistent than the other two races, which is generally due to the driver having a better overall chassis balance and tyre utilisation and the strategy team having more confidence in the driver achieving the required stop laps...

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/08/a ... ree-races/

[spankyham]

.... The only thing wrong with di Montezemolo's comments is the timing! He should have been more vocal when this all went down! Unfortunately, as you say, this has the look of sour grapes!

This is just a personal thing, but I'd much prefer to see any anger in my team turned into determination and work that leads to wins.

[sagi58]

One of the few times I'll agree with a Tifosi

I personally don't feel that the penalty was enough, Merc got away with that one scot free.

In terms of Motezemolo's timing I think he's trying to deflect questions away from Ferrari about their plummeting pace.

From his recent outbursts, I don't think there is any doubt that di Montezemolo about Ferrari's form/pace!
I bet heads are going to roll!

p.s. See? It doesn't always hurt to agree with us!!

[sagi58]

.... The only thing wrong with di Montezemolo's comments is the timing! He should have been more vocal when this all went down! Unfortunately, as you say, this has the look of sour grapes!

This is just a personal thing, but I'd much prefer to see any anger in my team turned into determination and work that leads to wins.

A.B.S.O.L.U.T.E.L.Y.!! Hopefully, di Montezemolo's public outbursts are just the tip of the iceberg
as compared to what's going on behind closed doors at Ferrari and at the FIA for that matter!!!

[sagi58]

Here's a perfect opportunity for Ferrari, which I'm hoping di Montezemolo jumps on... f.a.s.t.!!
Mind you, Hembrey mentions further testing with a 2011 car, NOT the 2013, that Mercedes tested with!
Maybe Ferrari won't be interested in it, after all!!

Pirelli wants another 1000km team tyre test

Paul Hembery has admitted he would like to organise another 1000 kilometre tyre test, although the last one with Mercedes' 2013 car was highly controversial.

Indeed, F1's official supplier and the Brackley based team were officially reprimanded for the Barcelona session.

But if the FIA's clarified guidelines are followed, Pirelli's contract with the sport actually permits tyre tests with individual teams, and motor sport boss Hembery admitted he is keen to organise another.

Despite the controversy, and the fact Mercedes was penalised by having to sit out the recent Silverstone test, Hembery called that 1000km session "the best we've ever done".

"That's why we want more of it," he told Germany's Auto Bild.

"Maybe we'll do another 1000km test with a 2011 car," said Hembery. "At the end of the year we would also like to do one or two tests with a 2013 car -- one in Brazil and a rain test at Le Castellet."

It is yet another clear indication that, although not entirely certain, Pirelli will be staying in F1 beyond the end of its rapidly-expiring 2013 contract.

But amid the delay in getting a new deal signed, the normal September 1 deadline for revealing the following year's full tyre specification to the teams will blow out.

"We will inform the teams on October 1," said Hembery, revealing that the deadline has been extended.

Pirelli is tipped to produce wider rears for the high-torque V6 engines next year, but otherwise Hembery has hinted that the construction and compounds will be much more conservative than the controversial 2013 tyres.

He said the scandals and criticism were "too much" this year.

[What's Burning?]

Sagi, you've been pretty vocal about the Mercedes tires test, others here even more so, but everything said in that article contradicts the claims that Mercedes has been a transformed team since their clandestine test. It's best summarized with this;

So, although the championship table tells a very obvious story, with Mercedes scoring almost double the points in the five races since its test compared to the five races before, it’s hard to draw too many firm conclusions about timelines for improvement, other than to say that Hungary was clearly a breakthrough and showed that the team has definitely got its act together now and that the new Pirellis suit it.

[sagi58]

Sagi, you've been pretty vocal about the Mercedes tires test, others here even more so, but everything said in that article contradicts the claims that Mercedes has been a transformed team since their clandestine test. It's best summarized with this;

So, although the championship table tells a very obvious story, with Mercedes scoring almost double the points in the five races since its test compared to the five races before, it’s hard to draw too many firm conclusions about timelines for improvement, other than to say that Hungary was clearly a breakthrough and showed that the team has definitely got its act together now and that the new Pirellis suit it.

Hardly contradictory! In my initial post, I highlighted James Allen's conclusion that the chassis and tires are better suited to one another.
That alone suggests that the testing and the time since have given Mercedes plenty of time to accomplish that!

I'm not saying that it's not something Ferrari or any other team would not have done, had they been in the same position, rather I'm saying that it's not "only" down to hard work and talent.

We've seen plenty of times that there is a certain element of luck and timing involved in any success!

[sagi58]

Mind, if I were to believe that Barcelona had nothing to do with Mercedes' recent form and that it's all about hard work and development over time, I would then argue that Schumi be given all due credit for having developed the car over the last three years!!

[What's Burning?]

But better suited to one another can is is more likely completely coincidental, rather than some insidious plan. The finalized tires used in Hungary weren't even a glimmer in Pirelli's eye when the tire test was done by Mercedes. So Luca is slinging crap at the wall just to see if any of it sticks because he's watched his team lose the erection they stated the season with. Sometimes intelligence and hard work get more achieved that "passion".

Mind, if I were to believe that Barcelona had nothing to do with Mercedes' recent form and that it's all about hard work and development over time, I would then argue that Schumi be given all due credit for having developed the car over the last three years!!

Or the six months Lewis has been around telling Mercedes which end is up.

[CookinFlat6]

Just in case anyone forgets the legal and therefore historical conclusion of Mercs test here is a reminder from the same JA article

confusion over what kind of testing was permissible, which ultimately led to the International Tribunal hearing over the Mercedes test. This concluded that Mercedes had breached the Sporting Regulations, but had done so in good faith and basically found Mercedes, Pirelli and the FIA responsible in equal measure for the situation.

whatever Montezemolo might say now is irrelevant because it is history, just like Red Bulls flapping wings are history

[What's Burning?]

He wouldn't have said anything were Mercedes two spots behind Ferrari in the WCC.

[1Lemon]

Just in case anyone forgets the legal and therefore historical conclusion of Mercs test here is a reminder from the same JA article

confusion over what kind of testing was permissible, which ultimately led to the International Tribunal hearing over the Mercedes test. This concluded that Mercedes had breached the Sporting Regulations, but had done so in good faith and basically found Mercedes, Pirelli and the FIA responsible in equal measure for the situation.

whatever Montezemolo might say now is irrelevant because it is history, just like Red Bulls flapping wings are history

So is the justification "I shot a man, but did it in good faith so it's fine."?

[CookinFlat6]

He wouldn't have said anything were Mercedes two spots behind Ferrari in the WCC.

He didnt say anything after the German GP where Lewis started 1st and finished behind Alonso who started 8th

And after that, it was a lottery with unknown tyres

Maybe Ferrari are upto something naughty over this break

[What's Burning?]

Just in case anyone forgets the legal and therefore historical conclusion of Mercs test here is a reminder from the same JA article

confusion over what kind of testing was permissible, which ultimately led to the International Tribunal hearing over the Mercedes test. This concluded that Mercedes had breached the Sporting Regulations, but had done so in good faith and basically found Mercedes, Pirelli and the FIA responsible in equal measure for the situation.

whatever Montezemolo might say now is irrelevant because it is history, just like Red Bulls flapping wings are history

So is the justification "I shot a man, but did it in good faith so it's fine."?

It is, if the cop standing next to you and the prosecutor standing next to him also told you it was okay to shoot the man.

EDIT: in this case, the "man" you shot was the insane serial killer that is the ban of in season testing.

[CookinFlat6]

So is the justification "I shot a man, but did it in good faith so it's fine."?

Just saying its the past and even if Merc win the next 9 races, and even if its somehow tied to that test, then it will always forever be a fault of the process created by the FIA that led to mistakes made by the 3 parties. And which Merc was penalised for - a big disadvantage of not testing new tyres
Merc may have won every race since if they had been at the YDT with the new tyres

Mistakes happen in sports and are catered for by penalties. I remember the last World cup when Italy handballed in the last minute to prevent a certain goal, the other team, Ghana IIRC were handed a penalty which they missed. And got knocked out, when the original shot would hve been a goal without the handball. was the handball cynical or not, doesnt matter the rules dictated the outcome

Thats how the rules and regulations work in sports.