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#233183
...First, Stefano showed reponsability for the fumble, which as he said himself wasnt entirely his (or anybodys) fault in particular, but because of the devastating effects....

I watched the race again last night, only to consider when Alonso should have pitted best to improve his position. The Ferrari tifosi want to blame Domenicali because it exculpates their golden-haired boy but I have to agree it was no one's fault in particular. Alonso simply didn't have the pace. He overdrove the car, as evidenced by the fact that he had off-track excursions in both stints yet he never showed pace enough to be in command of his own destiny.

Alonso had 10 laps after the safety car period and before his pit stop to pass Button and reclaim the position he'd lost at the start. He failed. And he had 38 laps to find a way around Petrov. He failed again.

The truth is both he and Webber suffered off days, which proved a two-edged sword. Had Webber's pace been notably better than Alonso's, Domenicali might not have keyed off the RBR's pit stop. The irony is that Webber's lack of pace made him a Judas goat.

It appeared that Alonso was driving conservatively his first stint, presumably an effort to stay out of trouble and let the race come to him. At first I thought this a mistake but I'm not so certain he simply couldn't find any more speed.

One point that gets little mention is that if Vettel had not had such an excellent pit stop and if Hamilton not had a mediocre one, Alonso should have been 2010 WDC. Hamilton's radio call to Andy Latham showed he was distraught to learn Vettel had pitted and yet managed to return to the circuit still ahead of him. Latham replied that Vettel's pit stops (sic) made the difference. And none of this was Domenicali's fault.

There are no certainties but the there are three possible scenarios under which I think Alonso would have been virtually assured of coming at least fourth. Had he not lost a position to Button in the very first corner of the race, or had he not struggled for grip with both tyre compounds, or had Vettel emerged from pit lane behind Hamilton, I think Alonso would have been 2010 WDC. And none of those were Domenicali's fault.

...Will be interesting to see how the traitor cough Pat Fry goes.

Look for him to replace Stefano as team principal in 2012. Or maybe part-way through the 2011 season. One does not hire a man of Frye's abilities and stature in the sport for such a menial role (not for long, anyway). Leaving Domenicali in his position a while longer will allow for a smoother transition, plus it will limit the further loss of face to both he and the Scuderia.
#233188
...First, Stefano showed reponsability for the fumble, which as he said himself wasnt entirely his (or anybodys) fault in particular, but because of the devastating effects....

I watched the race again last night, only to consider when Alonso should have pitted best to improve his position. The Ferrari tifosi want to blame Domenicali because it exculpates their golden-haired boy but I have to agree it was no one's fault in particular. Alonso simply didn't have the pace. He overdrove the car, as evidenced by the fact that he had off-track excursions in both stints yet he never showed pace enough to be in command of his own destiny.

Alonso had 10 laps after the safety car period and before his pit stop to pass Button and reclaim the position he'd lost at the start. He failed. And he had 38 laps to find a way around Petrov. He failed again.

The truth is both he and Webber suffered off days, which proved a two-edged sword. Had Webber's pace been notably better than Alonso's, Domenicali might not have keyed off the RBR's pit stop. The irony is that Webber's lack of pace made him a Judas goat.

It appeared that Alonso was driving conservatively his first stint, presumably an effort to stay out of trouble and let the race come to him. At first I thought this a mistake but I'm not so certain he simply couldn't find any more speed.

One point that gets little mention is that if Vettel had not had such an excellent pit stop and if Hamilton not had a mediocre one, Alonso should have been 2010 WDC. Hamilton's radio call to Andy Latham showed he was distraught to learn Vettel had pitted and yet managed to return to the circuit still ahead of him. Latham replied that Vettel's pit stops (sic) made the difference. And none of this was Domenicali's fault.

There are no certainties but the there are three possible scenarios under which I think Alonso would have been virtually assured of coming at least fourth. Had he not lost a position to Button in the very first corner of the race, or had he not struggled for grip with both tyre compounds, or had Vettel emerged from pit lane behind Hamilton, I think Alonso would have been 2010 WDC. And none of those were Domenicali's fault.

...Will be interesting to see how the traitor cough Pat Fry goes.

Look for him to replace Stefano as team principal in 2012. Or maybe part-way through the 2011 season. One does not hire a man of Frye's abilities and stature in the sport for such a menial role (not for long, anyway). Leaving Domenicali in his position a while longer will allow for a smoother transition, plus it will limit the further loss of face to both he and the Scuderia.


Alonso just had to copy Vettel or Button to win the WDC. That’s all. He only had to drive like a taxi driver to win, as LDM said. He hadn’t to risk anything trying to overtake anybody.
All the trouble to him was caused for the Michael Schumacher accident and SC and the delirious strategy followed for Chris Dyer.
User avatar
By Jensonb
#233211
Can I ask what everyone is getting at with these "if it wasn't an honest mistake" remarks? What else would cause him, or anyone in that team, to screw up a Strategy so badly? Surely you aren't insinuating that Dyer for no apparent reason wanted Fernando to fail? What exactly would he have to gain from such an outcome? And I'd like to see at least some smoke and some flickering light from whatever fire you think he may have started.


Have you seen the replay of the Michael Schumacher accident at the first lap in Abu Dhabi. Please do it. Jean Todt, some days after the race, call this accident a wink. :wink:

Yes, and I also watched it live. He spun the car in a tight fight. Are you sure you have seen it? There was nothing suspicious about it.

To coin a phrase...Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're out to get you.


In a tight fight with who? I’ve seen it a lot of times and I don’t have any doubt about it. Why would Jean Todt call it a wink? Supposedly you wink when you’re joking or cheating.
You have asked and I’m answered. Don’t question if you don’t want the response.
What are you calling me? I could answer to you in a hundred different ways that would please you, but I would rather report it to the mods than starting an absurd fight.
But any way, to coin a phrase…..just because you’re a stupid arrogant, not everybody is stupid and arrogant.

Arrogant isn't a noun, genius :rolleyes:

Also, I don't believe I called you anything, other than insinuating your post reeked of paranoia, which is neither a new opinion nor an especially controversial one...You seem to be under the impression that my response was in some way heated...It, um, wasn't.
User avatar
By f1ea
#233229
...First, Stefano showed reponsability for the fumble, which as he said himself wasnt entirely his (or anybodys) fault in particular, but because of the devastating effects....

I watched the race again last night, only to consider when Alonso should have pitted best to improve his position. The Ferrari tifosi want to blame Domenicali because it exculpates their golden-haired boy but I have to agree it was no one's fault in particular. Alonso simply didn't have the pace. He overdrove the car, as evidenced by the fact that he had off-track excursions in both stints yet he never showed pace enough to be in command of his own destiny.


hmmm interesting, i think most people feel they HAVE to blame somebody.... but Stefano's statements are pretty rational, he said he took the responsibility (which is understandable in his position), doesnt mean he took or even had the blame.
But apart from that, the driver was not supposed to (and definitely not in the best position) to understand the scenario after the re-arranged grid, so definitely the job of the pit wall to understand the situation. Fernando didnt need to show any spectacular pace. In fact, even guys who finished ahead of him had worse pace.

Alonso had 10 laps after the safety car period and before his pit stop to pass Button and reclaim the position he'd lost at the start. He failed. And he had 38 laps to find a way around Petrov. He failed again.


Alonso didnt have to pass Jenson for 3rd. And neither did he have to pass Petrov... at the moment he was behind Petrov the championship was already lost. I think there were 3 more cars to pass after Petrov, this should have been known by the pit wall, as they had information about who had pitted.

I think Vettel having a great race meant nothing to Alonso/Ferrari. They had the championship in their own hands, and that's the reason Domenicali felt the way he did. Regardless whose fault it was.

There are no certainties but the there are three possible scenarios under which I think Alonso would have been virtually assured of coming at least fourth. Had he not lost a position to Button in the very first corner of the race, or had he not struggled for grip with both tyre compounds, or had Vettel emerged from pit lane behind Hamilton, I think Alonso would have been 2010 WDC. And none of those were Domenicali's fault.


But the most important one was not having the SC. Also not Domenicali's fault.

...Will be interesting to see how the traitor cough Pat Fry goes.

Look for him to replace Stefano as team principal in 2012. Or maybe part-way through the 2011 season. One does not hire a man of Frye's abilities and stature in the sport for such a menial role (not for long, anyway). Leaving Domenicali in his position a while longer will allow for a smoother transition, plus it will limit the further loss of face to both he and the Scuderia.


:yes: exactly what i think. Stefano is a great manager, from a managerial pt of view; but the weaknesses in the sporting side of things have been notable in the last yrs. These moves have been lingering around long before the last race, but for some reason journalists would rather add "...following the race in Abu Dhabi" ;)
#233230
In a tight fight with who? I’ve seen it a lot of times and I don’t have any doubt about it. Why would Jean Todt call it a wink? Supposedly you wink when you’re joking or cheating.
You have asked and I’m answered. Don’t question if you don’t want the response.
What are you calling me? I could answer to you in a hundred different ways that would please you, but I would rather report it to the mods than starting an absurd fight.
But any way, to coin a phrase…..just because you’re a stupid arrogant, not everybody is stupid and arrogant.


Arrogant isn't a noun, genius :rolleyes:
Also, I don't believe I called you anything, other than insinuating your post reeked of paranoia, which is neither a new opinion nor an especially controversial one...You seem to be under the impression that my response was in some way heated...It, um, wasn't.


I seem to be……um……...under the……..um………..impression that…...um…….you are…....um……..in some way…..um…....a………stupid…..um……....an arrogant…..um……..and……um…..…a preposterous……um……… fanboy.

[:yes: exactly what i think. Stefano is a great manager, from a managerial pt of view; but the weaknesses in the sporting side of things have been notable in the last yrs. These moves have been lingering around long before the last race, but for some reason journalists would rather add "...following the race in Abu Dhabi" ;)


What a pity that they didn’t make the change a couple of months before.
User avatar
By scotty
#233232
Enough with the personal mudslinging already. You all should know the rules on this place by now, sheesh! :director:
User avatar
By Jensonb
#233244
In a tight fight with who? I’ve seen it a lot of times and I don’t have any doubt about it. Why would Jean Todt call it a wink? Supposedly you wink when you’re joking or cheating.
You have asked and I’m answered. Don’t question if you don’t want the response.
What are you calling me? I could answer to you in a hundred different ways that would please you, but I would rather report it to the mods than starting an absurd fight.
But any way, to coin a phrase…..just because you’re a stupid arrogant, not everybody is stupid and arrogant.


Arrogant isn't a noun, genius :rolleyes:
Also, I don't believe I called you anything, other than insinuating your post reeked of paranoia, which is neither a new opinion nor an especially controversial one...You seem to be under the impression that my response was in some way heated...It, um, wasn't.


I seem to be……um……...under the……..um………..impression that…...um…….you are…....um……..in some way…..um…....a………stupid…..um……....an arrogant…..um……..and……um…..…a preposterous……um……… fanboy.

..Of Schumacher? What gave you that idea?
#233257
In a tight fight with who? I’ve seen it a lot of times and I don’t have any doubt about it. Why would Jean Todt call it a wink? Supposedly you wink when you’re joking or cheating.
You have asked and I’m answered. Don’t question if you don’t want the response.
What are you calling me? I could answer to you in a hundred different ways that would please you, but I would rather report it to the mods than starting an absurd fight.
But any way, to coin a phrase…..just because you’re a stupid arrogant, not everybody is stupid and arrogant.


Arrogant isn't a noun, genius :rolleyes:
Also, I don't believe I called you anything, other than insinuating your post reeked of paranoia, which is neither a new opinion nor an especially controversial one...You seem to be under the impression that my response was in some way heated...It, um, wasn't.


I seem to be……um……...under the……..um………..impression that…...um…….you are…....um……..in some way…..um…....a………stupid…..um……....an arrogant…..um……..and……um…..…a preposterous……um……… fanboy.

..Of Schumacher? What gave you that idea?


I read your post about Jenson and the reasons because you considered him the best and even disagreeing in some points, I respected your opinions and your sentiments and I appreciate the passion you put in it. I use to respect people and believe that sometimes I also deserve to be respected.
I like controversy in a reasoned way, without insulting or despising anyone and I would like that, whenever we speak about our different points of view we could do it in a civilized way, otherwise we could been insulting and despising each other till the end of the times.
User avatar
By bud
#233258
I like controversy in a reasoned way, without insulting or despising anyone and I would like that, whenever we speak about our different points of view we could do it in a civilized way, otherwise we could been insulting and despising each other till the end of the times.


why don't you start practising what you preach? All you do is insult yet make claims like this.
User avatar
By Jensonb
#233266
I read your post about Jenson and the reasons because you considered him the best and even disagreeing in some points, I respected your opinions and your sentiments and I appreciate the passion you put in it. I use to respect people and believe that sometimes I also deserve to be respected.
I like controversy in a reasoned way, without insulting or despising anyone and I would like that, whenever we speak about our different points of view we could do it in a civilized way, otherwise we could been insulting and despising each other till the end of the times.

There's a big difference between me suggesting that conspiracy theorism is inherently paranoid and you hurling personal abuse. That difference is I was being civilised and saying your point was outlandish, whereas you insulted me. I'm getting sick to death of people like you and others on this forum conflating "disagreement" with "disrespect". Disagreement is me telling you I think you've got your facts wrong, disrespect would be if I told you were a stupid, arrogant, preposterous fanboy.
#233273
I just dished out a warning - you guys, YOU GUYS! :director: Kindergarten :rolleyes:
This thread is about to get locked, so behave now or else... you know, fishing trips are pretty popular I hear :whip::whip:
#233283
I wish I had more time these days to help our loving mods to lock threads out early on... :crying:
#233285
I wish I had more time these days to help our loving mods to lock threads out early on... :crying:

Not sure what you mean... :confused:
#233286
Nvm. :hehe:
#233290
:yes: exactly what i think. Stefano is a great manager, from a managerial pt of view; but the weaknesses in the sporting side of things have been notable in the last yrs. These moves have been lingering around long before the last race, but for some reason journalists would rather add "...following the race in Abu Dhabi" ;)

If the change had been decided long before the last race, Chris Dyer should have known before Abu Dhaby that he was going to be replaced by Pat Fry. Here we have a very nice reason for him to collaborate with his former team mates Michael Schumacher and Ross Brown.
If something strange happened at Abu Dhabi, Ferrari should know it because I imagine they have seen the race one hundred times and they could take a look to MS telemetry. Then it is natural that they have fired Chris Dyer.
What make me sick is that people that haven’t seen the MS accident since it happened are 100% sure that there was nothing strange in it, while I have seen it a lot of times and only can be 90% sure that it was a simulation.
If the FIA President Jean Todt called the MS accident “a wink” I imagine that he didn’t say that for the sake of it and as I’ve said before one winks when is joking or cheating.
There's a big difference between me suggesting that conspiracy theorism is inherently paranoid and you hurling personal abuse. That difference is I was being civilised and saying your point was outlandish, whereas you insulted me. I'm getting sick to death of people like you and others on this forum conflating "disagreement" with "disrespect". Disagreement is me telling you I think you've got your facts wrong, disrespect would be if I told you were a stupid, arrogant, preposterous fanboy.

I don’t now in yours, but in the town where I live calling someone a conspiracy theorist and a paranoid or insane is insulting him seriously. The way, in which you say your opinion, if you re-read it you could realize that is arrogant and contemptuous. If we want to understand each other we can make a little effort to discuss in a reasoned way. That’s all that I can say to you. I didn’t want to offend you as I imagine you didn’t want to offend me. I feel sorry.
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